Maybe hydraulic hybrids make perfect sense
A hybrid without a battery.
Who says hybrids need batteries?
Yesterday we learned that Chrysler was finally getting back into the hybrid game, but we didn’t yet know that part of Chrysler’s hybrid plan was to develop hydraulic hybrid vehicles based on the EPA’s technology.
While Hybridcarblog has covered hydraulic hybrids in the past, perhaps we weren’t as excited as we should have been.
Today, there aren’t many hydraulic hybrids on the road and most are large delivery and garbage trucks, but when put into application these hybrid vehicles have shown significant improvements in fuel economy. And more important, this efficiency is gained without a costly battery. Furthermore, this technology just might scale into smaller passenger vehicles.
According to the AP, Chrysler believes they can add this technology to minivans and pickup trucks to achieve a 35 percent increase in fuel economy, and demonstration vehicles should be hitting the pavement by 2013 or earlier.
Unfortunately, the big question is still: How much does such technology cost? Is this technology significantly cheaper than battery technologies? Which offers more bang for the buck? Additionally, could this technology eventually scale into even smaller vehicles?
Ultimately, the real appeal of hydraulic hybrids is the lack of dependence upon foreign lithium and, probably, foreign battery manufacturers, especially since a huge percent of battery profits will be found in lithium mining to cell-production – long before these technologies reach US shores. Thus a big dependence upon batteries could possibly lead to more foreign auto jobs.
If hydraulic hybrids can keep more money and more jobs in the US while achieving 35 percent gains in fuel economy, they make perfect sense to me.
[...] if hydraulic hybrids are starting to make sense, why not air [...]
I appreciate solar energy stuff and everything about renewable energy like hybrid cars but the battery life needs to be improved for sure before people embrace this solution.
Carbon fiber has the same drawbacks as alternative fuels. It comes at a higher cost. Those higher costs offset the savings from decreased fuel consumption just like they do with a hybrid.
The reason cars are still made mostly from steel is because steel has a much lower cost.
Goerge Washington Carver developed a car body for Henry Ford made from Soy Bean. Why do we not see that car today? Because it cost more than a car made from steel.
No solution is truly viable until it can offer increased fuel economy without a significant increase in cost.
..Worlds First Full Series Hydraulic Hybrid Delivery Vehicle Prototyped in a UPS Package Car…. 2 pp 1.8M ..Through the use of innovative hydraulic hybrid technology EPA and its industry partners have been able to create the most efficient and cost-effective powertrain technology in the world. ….Hydraulic Hybrid Vehicles HHVs rely on proven innovative technology which can be applied to light duty work trucks SUVs and heavy duty urban vehicles such as city transit buses and garbage trucks…..
Also, larry, and to bring my response back home, the US is especially well positioned to chase hydraulic hybrids in particularly. south america and china are better positioned for lithium. asia dominates battery production. hydraulic hybrids could be a great response to these foreign-favoring plays and the US government already owns key patents for this technology.
larry, the “we” is the US.
in my opinion no other country compares to the US when it comes to transportation and oil consumption. for instance, per capita we suck up a disproportionate amount of the world’s oil. therefore, we have more to gain than any other country by becoming more energy independent.
likewise, for decades, the US auto industry has largely driven the world’s auto industry as the most important market, but it’s becoming less important. in a few decades emerging markets will make the US market far less important. consequently, you see Ford, for instance, gearing up to focus on world platforms – basically cars that can be sold in ALL markets – as the key to future success. future success; therefore, might be dependent upon those kinds of world cars selling here in the US as well.
of course, if emerging markets are going to eventually dwarf the US market, that means a lot more energy demand. that means higher oil prices and the need for alternative energy sources, such as natural gas, currently predicted for explosive growth over the next few decades.
by ending foreign dependence, the US stops spending hundreds of billions in foreign countries every year and instead spends it domestically. additionally, we also develop technologies that we’ll be able to sell to other countries, for example. according to the recent Accenture study, for example, this is America’s strength: innovation. and, if you think long term, these technologies that we’d develop ahead of time will eventually be required anyway and if intelligently pursued as part of a comprehensive plan can also be profitable despite foregoing the cheapness of petroleum.
re: couldn’t we do it faster?
who is “we”? The world?
I tend to wonder/think out loud about what goes on it world with regard to these things and what goes on here.
Are there less heavy, more efficient, higher technology levels of vehicles built/available/in-use in other parts of the world and not here?
a hypothetical – would you expect a hydraulic car to be built and mass produced here before other countries?
If the rest of the world has not produced that technology – and we have not either – does that mean this country has failed to produce an available technology even though the rest of world has not either?
questions. questions.
but think about that larry. in some Ford models a focus on weight reduction increased fuel economy by 20 – 30 percent.
so, 20 – 30 percent less fuel through weight reductions.
10 – 20 percent replaced through biofuels
20 – 40 percent through alternative fuels like natural gas, propane, synfuels, etc.
5 – 10 percent renewables
10 – 20 percent through new ICE engine, turbocharging, direct injection, etc.
30 – 50 percent though battery and hybrid technologies like hydraulics.
yes those are just real rough estimates, but if the US was seriously committed to ending foreign oil dependence as a first major step towards a more advanced and renewable energy paradigm, couldn’t we do it much faster than the conventional wisdom suggests?
And your video seems to answer one of my key questions, Tom. Yes, theoretically at least, this technology could one day scale into even the smallest passenger vehicles.
Also interesting that this technology could improve fuel economy up to 50 percent.
weight reduction is the key to many of these technologies …. but weight reduction could also benefit current technologies.
i don’t really know anything about flywheels, smurf.
a few years ago i spoke with a number of GM engineers working on ultracaps. they claimed the technology was promising, but not yet any more cost-effective compared to alternatives, for whatever that’s worth.
the other energy storage solution that i find extremely interesting is carbon fiber. man, if you could use carbon fiber to build stronger and lighter vehicles while storing energy in it at the same time……seems like it would change everything.
thanks for posting Tom! It’s fascinating technology!
I noticed a couple of things in the video.
That the YOUNG GUY spoke with an accent…and that the older guys were Americans.
Our schools these days SUCK at producing young people who can critically think about leading edge technology issues – read and understand – and articulate.
Because our schools have degraded and have become more social club than academic achievement.
Interesting video about hydraulic hybrid technology at this website.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycAgr6tpRQg
I’ve always been curious about other ways to store energy besides batteries, including hydraulic hybrids.
What about flywheels like in the Porsche GT3 hybrid that did so well in 24-hour races?
I’m also interested in seeing if we’ve made any progress in ultra-capacitors…