Chinese embrace of plug-ins will result in massive CO2 pollution
Dirty coal means plug-ins are an environmental problem.
Plug-ins and dirty coal just don’t make sense
China cannot reinvent the engine; however, China can be a leader in electrification since hybrid and plug-in vehicles are still in the dawn of their development. As China’s automarket is expected to grow massively in coming years, trying to become a major player in battery-powered vehicles is a smart economic move if electrification is the future.
Unfortunately, Chinese plug-in success could be an environmental disaster according to a new study.
Based on research by emission’s expert Juerg Gruetter of Gruetter Consulting, China’s dependence upon dirty coal means that gasoline vehicles are actually far cleaner than plug-in vehicles, at least in terms of CO2 emissions.
While studying the CO2 emissions from electric scooters Gruetter found plug-in scooters emit 20 grams more CO2 per kilometer than gasoline powered ones, and the problem is even more problematic when comparing cars. Compared to electric cars, electric scooters are significantly more efficient that gasoline powered ones. Unfortunately, the efficiency difference between electric cars and gasoline ones isn’t as great, which means that plug-in cars will emit significantly more CO2 per kilometer than gasoline-powered ones.
Source: AutoblogGreen
Schools in all Nations need to Teach more on Solar Energy.
When this Old World starts getting you down. From Pollution the cost of OIL,
Heating Fuel,The Fuel you put in your Vehicles, You Electric Bills from
cooling air conditioners and lights not to speak of the Evil. The TAX that all
Governments Federal, State, County and City put on everything they can thing of.
They are supposed to serve us. Not put a burden on its people. That they are
elected to serve all the people you, not their own Pocket Books.
The Wicked keep putting higher taxes on everything. Making it a Heavy
Burden on many that are already struggling just to put food on the table.
Too many Americans and People of all Nations have lost their home to the tax collector or to foreclosures
from the unjust bankers greed. More are out of work and lost their homes then
in the GREAT DEPRESSION,in the last ten years. All Americans and many Nations
need good jobs and more of them. Not more TAXES and Wars.
There is a Industry that will employ workers and is growing by more then 50%
every year. There is a clear way for all up on the roof the Sun Light is free
fuel from GOD. Some wicked in Government have been backing Coal, Oil, Gas and
the Nuclear industries for too many years. These kickbacks to them were called
Subsidizing Industry Technology. Most all Wise Men and smart Economist and
Environmentalists call this padding their pockets and subsidizing back to the
Stone Age.
This might even been funny in the 1960′s. If it were a Fred Flintstones and
Barny Rubble Movie. About How to aggressively systematically work with the rich
to Pollute Ground Water quality to the point it is unsafe to drink or use.
So to they make a law you can only buy water from their pipe line. And to make
the air we breath full of Toxic Gases, Sulfur Dioxide and more Radioactive
and Acid Rain. Injuring all living things on Earth.
With Fred Flintstones to the Rescue. To help create a Healthier Environment.
For all Future Generations. By spotlighting Renewable Energy and Free Energy
like Wind and Solar. On his and his neighbor Barny Rubble’s roof. Even though
the greedy wicked would do everything to stop or slow them down.
Just imagine a dream that a 100 years ago one of the smartest man to ever
live had. A dream after working with Sun Light. That all on Earth would use
Free Energy Solar Energy.
That Dream also shared by a man that dreamed this over 2,250 years ago.
Both These men showed the world in their days. That this dream of Free Energy
Solar Energy World wide was very possible. Both of these two wise men had
first hand worked and researched their experiments for not just days, weeks
put for many years.
One of these men used chalk on Black Board the others board was a black
stone table or floor covered with white sand and used a stick. One of these
two Brilliant men had Kings from all most every Kingdom on Earth come to him
for advice.
The other went to almost every nation on Earth. Freely on his own dime
Teaching All that had ears to hear. He would win the Nobel Prize for doing so.
For his work on Solar Energy. Only after years of doing research and when most
Scientist on Earth would not take the nomination for the Nobel Prize in 1921 and knew
it clearly belonged to this Brilliant Scientist, this Brilliant scientist was then awarded it in
1922 for the 1921 year.
Now if this was just a Pretend TV Show or a Movie from a dream. This would
be a great Sci Fi Story Line. In the 1960′s or even better to day. Sci Fi story
Movie or dream No.
All that i Have told you did actually really happen. Albert Einstein won the
Nobel Prize for what? When Government leaders asked him to go on stage. To
address the Scientific Community and the World. About what he was given the
Nobel Prize for. When Albert Einstein Had done so. He addressed them with his
other accomplishments. For years most Governments did not have a ear for
Einstein’s Dream.
Archimedes around 250 B.C. was know most of the World over as a great
Mathematician. One of the first Scientist and Inventor of many things. Even
the first Laser Ray from the Sun’s Energy. Science Fiction is what you would
have though you were seeing if you could go back in time, it was real.To day
we call it The LASER, Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission. Back then it
was just called Amplification of the SUN, Archimedes Death Ray.
Thousand of years later it would be a Laser. That Albert Einstein help
make possible. That would unlock one of the first books on Earth.
The METHOD written by Archimedes. Then over more then 250 years later. When
well Faded was cut from a scroll and put into a book form, to be easier to
hide from the Romans by St. Paul. This book sold for over 2 million dollars.
In New york at Christie’s Auction House.
These two are at the top of the list of the World’s Greatest Scientists,
Viewed by Scientist around the World.
Sad that for the last 25 years or so of every teacher asked no matter what
Grade k through 16. At least 80% of them did not know Archimedes. Even sadder 90%
of them could not tell you what one of the most Brilliant Scientist to ever
live on Earth. Won the Nobel Prize for.
It was for the work Albert Einstein did to show the World it could get
Free Energy, Electric from the SUN. (THE PHOTOVOLTAIC EFFECT).
You ask this question to any Military general 95% of them will get it right.
Even more surprising 99% of them will know more about Archimedes then most
Teachers on Earth. Generals know Energy is the key to Winning.
At almost one thousand to one Archimedes always won against what all knew was
impossible odds. Archimedes home town city of Syracuse was victorious against the
greatest Kingdoms Armies on earth many times. Syracuse once was one of the most
powerful cities in the World.
I can only ask you to please look into Solar Energy, Solar Power, Solar Panels
and Solar array on the internet under Images. To see and explore for your self
then you be the JURY.
More then 10 years ago the Internet became most of the World’s Universities
Learning Platform. A Modern Day Archimedes Resource Center.
The Solar Energy Industry in the year 2010 and 2011 has leaped ahead farther and
faster then any other industry on Earth. The Solar Industry in the
United States of America alone, has grown by more then 50% in 2010 and
that number has gone up even higher this year 2011.
The strong benefits of Solar Energy is Clear Clean Air viewed in major cities
as improving air quality. Clean Cities. By all that use there brain for good .
View it as protecting the environment and Freedom from OIL , Coal and other Dirty Energy.
While many Governments has eased the Taxes on Renewable Energy . Some cities in
the states that these Legislators come from have
worked against these tax credits.
By doing so they are showing their true objectives. That they have stock in some
power plants and do not want to lose all that Money they have been taking out of
your pocket books for too many years. By taxing you on your Energy Bills. They want
to Control Power and Tax Everything they can. Not let People be free to get their
own power from the top of their own roofs.
By adding their own taxes to them. These wicked leaders think that this will take
away the incentives to harvest the Free Energy from the Sun.
The Public ability and awareness for all on Earth to use the Natural Solar Energy,
is Contributing to Production of Solar Energy Products. Making the Solar
Energy Industry the fastest growing on Earth. A Wealth of Free Energy From The SUN.
The more the wicked try to slow the Solar Energy Industry down, it only Enhances
involvement and the efforts of the Good at Heart.
through out History Many have tried to wipe the good from our history books.
Read the Bible Jesus will Bless you more then i can.
SolarWorld has been presenting a Einstein Award to personalities who have advanced
the use of solar energy – and helped our Planet Earth.
We all need to tell all our Teachers and Leaders to use our Nation’s Energy more wisely
and efficient. Start to Teach all our Young about Renewable Energy Solar, Wind, and so on.
Not to for get Flintstones, Fred well there are many the one that is in front of all others
Started back in the 1970′s and started a small catalog that has turned into a Wealth of
knowledge into Renewable Energy a book called REAL GOODS Solar Living Source Book.
By Mr. John Schaeffer.
The world is going more with SOLAR, Wind and Geothermal Powered Energy. Speaking of
Geothermal Curt Lubben is just one of many sales representatives that has sold over a
million dollars of Renewable Energy in less then 365 days in the year 2011. The day of the
need for Dirty Oil, Coal and Dangerous Nuclear Power are coming to a end fast. The Freedom Element
Living with Hydrogen That Dr. Addison Bain has showed the world will free most all of the
need for the Power Grid and Oil CEO’s.
Very soon most of the world will not need Oil. Renewable Energy like Solar, Wind, Hydro and
Geothermal are now replacing dirty Energy like Oil. Solar Energy is growing World Wide at a
record pace.
Hybrid Cars are being sold all over the Earth. Soon Hybrid Vehicles that run on Electric /
Hydrogen, The Freedom Element. Will free the world from Oil. Thanks to a Great Scientist
Dr. Addison Bain’s Years of work for our Nation and with the Space Program on Hydrogen.
The day will come when many will see Solar Panels on most everything. What Free Electric
the sun makes will be used to split water into Hydrogen. The Hydrogen will be used to heat
our homes and to cook on and put into are Hybrid Vehicles that will run on
(The Freedom Element). Very soon most all will be filling up their Vehicles at Home.
Free from the Sun’s Solar Energy. Just as Dr.Addison Bain has done for years The Fist Hydrogen
Home Refueling Station in the World. That Dr. Addison Bain built by his self.
GOD Bless you for reading this.
May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
guide your Heart.
The Lord’s little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
I repeat that energy dependency is as much an issue as carbon emissions for China.
China, like the US has a foreign oil dependency problem because of it’s oil demands. With that in mind, every mile driven on electricity is a mile NOT driven on imported oil. Regardless of how that electricity is generated,or how clean it is, that is a good thing.
I wouldn’t hedge any bets on China caving to any pressure, international or otherwise. China is starting to pull back into itself, nationalizing its resources and limiting trade (slowly), as it tries to bring it’s economy back to scale. Their country is in the trappings of an economic landslide they may not be able to control.
China threw its weight around the world so quickly so fast, it revved up its infrastructure to a point of incompatability between its national politicals and its growth expectations. Witness the rise of its Ghost Cities.
Money brought freedom (in a sense) real quick to a lot of people who didn’t have it before and they want more. And China isn’t too keen on too many freedoms. So China is beginning to shut its doors before too many citizens see the light.
The pollution caused by its coal and oil operations will lessen as those industries begin scaling back (already happening) and its ramp up of RE infrastructure will take over as it turns to these alternate energy sources to cover growing demand, lessen pollution, and continue outbound trade growth through the renewable sector (coming to a theater near you). Look at all the “advances” of their wind farms, solar farms, etc.
Inbound trade growth will be limited to those companies willing to show China its intellectual property for an “inroad” to their population (and its money) which, if history proves anything, will spell the demise of those stupid companies. Any company going for the quick Yen will soon find their products being hawked on every street corner by any thug with a push-cart and nary a dime going into that company’s coffers. Hello, GM? I’m talking to you here!
EV tech will have to advance without any reliance on China for rare earth minerals, material design, or tech advances. China will keep all that in-house. Deals are already being brokered between countries (Bolivia, Australia, US, Afghanistan, etc) for such resources but we won’t see the light of those shenanigans for about 5 years.
In the meantime, countries will play russian roulette with the environment, trading CO2 credits like kids trade baseball cards. More wars will be started over dwindling resources, and not just oil but also lithium, cadmium, or any other ‘ium’s out there needed for civilized growth. War for civilization? War for Peace? Orwell didn’t know the half of it.
For now, kiddos, I suggest we all just kick back, pour a couple mai tais, and try to keep our distance from the shit storm.
It’s gonna get darker faster than it’ll get lighter….
Also, if plug-in CO2 emissions in China are a problem due to dirty coal, that could pose problems beyond just CO2 emissions.
Since 2000, China’s CO2 emissions have increased drastically because of coal. If this eventually leads to some kind of international pressure, it might slow China’s exuberance into plug-ins — which hasn’t come close to living up to the hype so far — and that could have a big impact the scaling potential of battery vehicles.
@dahcredyns: Agreed. Study like the one from US DOE shows that (with 43% of the average electricity from coal), both the cordless hybrid and the plugins would lower the greenhouse gas emission by 40-50%. Cordless hybrids do in fact provides the most bang for the buck.
http://www.ipd.anl.gov/anlpubs/2010/06/67242.pdf
If more coal is in electricity, the emission saving may not be possible.
The Chinese coal industry, overall, is decades behind the US in terms of ‘clean’ coal technology, so writing off this study is just silly in my opinion. There is a massive amount of data out there regarding China’s dirty coal.
Moreover, even groups like ERPI have admitted that older US coal plants and EVs could top gasoline vehicles in terms of CO2 emissions, but I know they are biased oil-favoring moles. Fortunately, new US plants counter most of those negative emissions.
But suggesting that China and the US are the same is void of scientific reality. And while China is investing in alternatives, the spend is still minuscule relative to how much they are investing into coal every day.
———-
Biased towards oil? When did coal become so much better than oil?
I’d accept higher short term CO2 emissions and greater coal use in the name of energy independence, but let’s not pretend like coal is some green technology.
I see little difference between domestic fossil fuels, so I only focus on foreign oil dependence.
Consequently, if you wanted to attack oil dependence efficiently, the focus should be on hybrids as they are more cost-effective today and they offer significant CO2-reductions, and every forecast through 2020, and most through 2030, still forecast that hybrids will lead the battery way.
Regardless, the key to any serious and timely attack on oil dependence is dependent upon the legacy effect.
If plug-ins achieve 10 percent penetration by 2020, something most analysts don’t believe will happen, how is that countering the legacy effect?
I mean, seriously, let’s step back and look at the big picture.
The longer we wait for perfect new car solutions and avoid tackling the legacy effect, the longer we ensure oil dependence.
And for the record, since I only put on a few 1000 miles per year on my hybrid — almost all via long trips — and take mass transit almost EVERYWHERE, even to my own inconvenience, such as getting groceries, I KNOW FOR A FACT that I’m not contributing to foreign oil dependence.
While personal independence is worth a pat on the back, 5 – 10 percent of hardcore advocates isn’t nearly enough to get the job done.
The article totally negates and doesn’t reference the huge splurge China is spending on solar, wind, and hydropower generation.
China knows how much coal it’s sucking up and what it’s doing to their country. But while they “Build, Baby, Build”, they are attempting to rely less on coal and oil for their energy needs.
Those who use “studies” like this are clearly biased towards oil. I haven’t seen the study, but if they claim EVs are dirtier than gas burners, then they most likely have excluded upstream pollution in the production of the gas. We’ve seen these types of studies before and they are all the same. Funding is usually by the oil industry and the bias is built in to the study from the beginning by excluding upstream pollution.
Also, anyone who hasn’t taken steps to switch to renewable electricity for their homes should not be talking about dirty electricity for cars, If dirty electricity is something you care about, start by ridding your home’s power of its pollution sources by installing solar (if you have the roof for it) or sign up for your utility’s renewable energy program.
Beawolf,
I don’t see it as cut and dry either, but many folks who do not like EV’s and hybrids “do”. They love to find studies like this one that supposedly show that hybrids and EV’s produce just as much carbon emissions as ICE vehicles, then use that as justification to continue to drive today’s gas guzzling dirty vehicles.
Because of that, I am always sceptical when I see a study like this.
As far as US petroleum consumption…….. The US produces “less than one third” of the petroleum it consumes. We import nearly 70% of our oil.
@Smurf: I don’t see it as black and white. We (USA) produces about half the petroleum we consume. If you cut our oil consumption by half, we’ll be energy independence. Cordless full hybrids (like Prius) are proven to be able to do that while saving money to the owners (breaks even in 5 years) reliably at an affordable price.
We can also use electricity to replace petroleum with plugin vehicles like Leaf, Volt and Prius PHV. Until the plugins become affordable (Prius PHV in the lead), cordless hybrids will continue to dominate in petroleum savings.
It is important to note that plugins still consume fossil fuel (coal and natural gas) since majority of the electricity in the US come from them. Plugins can help achieve our energy independence but we will still be depending on fossil fuel.
This is why it is important to have a clean and efficient gas engine (range extender) in a plugin hybrid. I am critical of the Volt because it consumes the most electricity in it’s class (even more than a class higher). Combine that with a dirty and inefficient gas engine (per hybrid standard) that is used for 1/3 of the miles driven by the owners. It is also very heavy for a compact car so much so that it tops Honda CR-V or Mazda 5.
Our grid will get cleaner. Cleaner electricity is more expensive so keep that in mind when comparing the future petroleum price increase.
1. It depends on whether your goal is energy independence or clean energy.
2. There are just as many studies that show that electric vehicles charged by coal power plants produce less carbon emissions than gasoline powered vehicles….
Its the same invalid argument they have been making in the US, except now we’re talking about China.