Toyota recall: Why doesn't the data match the accusations?
More Toyota junk?According to a recent MSNBC article Toyota's latest recalls are just an example of how Toyota quality has been slipping for years. Really?
And what's MSNBC's data for such a claim? A CNW perceived quality study. CNW? The same CNW that asserted that Hummers are far better for the environment than the Toyota Prius? Yup.
On the other hand, we have Consumer Reports, JD Power and NHTSA data. But, to be fair, since I'm calling CNW biased, we'll call Consumer Reports biased, since they are usually very supportive of Toyota quality, and Big 3 fans have often accused CR of bias. Fine. But then there is also the many years of JD Power's consumer-driven data that largely confirms the same reliability as suggested by CR. And, more recently, Edmunds studied the NTHSA database and found that only Mercedes, Porsche and Smart have received less quality complaints than Toyota over the last decade.
Finally, there is the unintended acceleration historical data. The problem of unintended acceleration has existed for decades and there is strong data to suggest that at least a significant percent of this problem - at least historically - has been due to driver error. Hate me for partially blaming the drivers, but that's what a significant amount of the evidence suggests.
Regardless, perhaps Toyota is more culpable this time around. Nonetheless, when it comes to the data the message seems to be clear, Toyota consumers have fewer problems with their vehicles compared to almost every other major automaker.
So, are media outlets such as MSNBC driven by perception and speculation, or the facts?
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:13 AM
13 Comments:
There are two ratings from Consumer Reports - the initial test and evaluation and that is subjective and has changed over the years. Ya'll probably don't remember it but CR defended the Big 3 in the early days of imports calling then unreliable and flimsily constructed...
but the second rating is for reliability and that data comes from actual data - and it's not subjective but just simply how many times a car has had trouble with a particular area.
I aways take CR's car tests with a grain of salt and they even admit it themselves often saying things like "for our tastes"...
but the reliability data does not lie.
and that's pretty much what I've based my decisions on for quite some time.
I don't care how much I like the looks of a car or even it's features... if it has black balls in the reliability area - it's toast.
I'm always amazed when I notice cars that are attractive.. good styles but miserable reliability sell quite well.
But if you're looking for fair treatment from the press.. forget it... their job is to sell their product - and that's what they do.
This is Toyota's fault - all the major players know how the PR game is played .. and no matter how you feel about it - that's the way it works and Toyota tried to do it a different way and it blew up in their face.
no?
I mostly agree, Larry. Still, I find the general media's behaviour at least very interesting.
The autorags have really come to Toyota's defense on this issue and that's a little unusual in my opinion.
Maybe the general media is just desperate considering their declining revenues, but the lack of objectivity has really alarmed and surprised me.
They are out for blood first and they'll work through details later. I'm glad the auto media are generally less dramatic and blood-thirsty.
I heard about the pedal recall, but now a hybrid recall, the honda airbag recall and to think I could have had no idea if it affected my NON toyota car good thing I found more info here http://www.carpedalrecall.com
searched for my make, model, year and found my car had been recalled so look out! it could save a life maybe yours
don't understand how serious or what the car pedal recall is about?
just watch this video at the end it also shows how to stop a out of control car very useful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGe3EOJ-CMY
Toyota owners must seek justice. The company has run afoul of the law and shown absolutely no regard for the safety of their customers.
Toyota led a dizzying array of misdirections and lies and despite all the recalls and public apologies, must answer for its actions in court.
If you own a Toyota, you have a right to be there. Please visit this site to learn more about the company's lies and denials spanning nearly a decade and what you can do as an owner: http://www.toyota-class-action-lawsuit.com/
Sounds to me you're trying to make bank as an ambulance chaser pal. Lawyers like this disgust me. You couldn't care less about the people who are affected...you simply want your money. And there's tens of millions to be had.
The American public can be pretty ruthless if they think a big rich car company done them wrong...
That's why it is so important to handle these kinds of issue carefully and be up front early on.. and not end up perceived by the public as "lying" because once the public thinks that - it's open season in the courts.
Toyota botched this up.. now the sharks are going to have a field day.
larry,
i'm not even sure how much toyota botched this up. in my opinion, there are a lot of politics going on here. john dingell, for instance, has been pushing this issue in the back halls of Congress for months. would he be doing the same it it were GM? hell no.
to date, there is no certainty as to what actually has occurred. there has been floor mat and pedal size speculation, or the faulty part, but little conclusive evidence.
yet, others have speculated it has nothing to do with any of that and is some kind of electronic's glitch and all the above are just a distraction.
all of this has been covered before in past unintended acceleration cases. and in most past cases, ultimately little conclusive proof could be found. instead, the resulting hypothesis has been built around human error.
how could it all just happen to toyota at the same time? how can the same person win the lottery multiple times?
such 'coincidences' happened to audi in the past, for instance. yet no conclusive evidence of culpability was ever found. the official conclusion, from what i've read, is there just happened to be a cluster of consumers driving audis that pushed the gas petal instead of the brakes.
so far there is much more speculation than evidence. MUCH more.
moreover, how can toyota fix something if there isn't direct evidence of a specific problem?
I'm not taking the side of those who are after Toyota ... but rather asking is Toyota handled this properly so as to steer around the kinds of issues now ongoing that - yes - are not totally fair.
at this point.. there's not a dang thing anyone can do... except let it play out.. and perhaps at the end... Toyota might actually be entitled to say "where do I go to get my reputation back" - but don't count on it.
oh by the way.. even the Japanese back home are jumping on Toyota too - right?
yes. and that is a very good point. toyota has been the japanese government's favored automaker, so the fact that they have come down hard on toyota is an important issue.
of course, that might just be because toyota is very important to the japanese government and any problems are therefore a direct threat to the government and cannot be tolerated.
they are down on them because they screwed up.. I suspect...
blaming one's problems on others only works if everybody and their dog agrees with you.
if a substantial number think you were part of the problem then blaming others just further hurts you.
Toyota has SOME responsibility here IMHO and instead of dealing with it up front in a timely matter - they tried rope-a-dope... which is perceived by the public as disrespect of the public and their customers...
you don't play rope-a-dope on issues where you have some blame. It's a losing strategy.
i don't disagree that toyota should have done more, i'm just not sure there was much they could do.
saying they should just stop selling cars until they conclusively find the problem - a problem that might be more user fault than toyota fault - means they go out of business.
looking at the data suggests, at best, this is a problem that will only affect a sliver of 1 percent of toyota drivers. looking at the data also suggests that this story has been blown completely out of proportion. looking at the data also suggests you are still safer in a recalled toyota than in many other vehicles.
Nice review.
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