Fusion hybrid also needs a brake fix
Similar problem as the new Prius?Just like the new Toyota Prius, the Ford Fusion hybrid is in need of a software update to fix a glitch in its braking system.
Much like the Prius, the Fusion hybrid can experience a lag, where it does not seem the brakes are working correctly. However, as long as the driver keeps depressing on the brakes, they will work after a possible, momentary lag.
Ironically, Ford, just as Toyota, has known about the problem for months, but since the brakes don't fail, wasn't sure a recall was needed. I guess it's not just big, bad Toyota.
Labels: Ford fusion hybrid, toyota prius
posted by Dahcredyns at
7:30 AM
12 Comments:
Not the same problem. Ford uses a different regenerative braking system, based on conventional braking technology with different suppliers from Toyota. The software threshold to transition from regenerative brakes to conventional brakes can cause the system to transition to conventional brakes unnecessarily. When this occurs, our system maintains full conventional brakes and full ABS function while the customer will see visual indicators and hear a chime. We have not identified any failures in the conventional hydraulic system.
Scott Monty
Global Digital Communications
Ford Motor Company
@ScottMonty
Thanks for the update and clarification, Scott.
Still, isn't the end result - essentially the feeling the drivers experience - basically the same, a momentary lapse where the brake feels less responsive?
That's the essence of what I've read so far, particularly the Consumer Reports engineer that coasted threw a stop sign when experiencing the glitch in a Fusion hybrid.
For clarity, here's the Consumer Reports incident I cited in my comments and a link to the full story.
"The Ford announcement came as Consumer Reports said one of its engineers ran a stop sign in a residential area when the brake pedal on a Fusion hybrid sank further than normal and warning lights lit up the dashboard. The car coasted to a stop with minimal brake feel, Consumer Reports said.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration database has a complaint from a motorist claiming that the Fusion hybrid brakes offered minimal resistance."
is some of this headed towards software issues?
there's a whole different standard with respect to software malfunctions that can cause death verses a mucked up computer screen. no?
I'm not sure i'm following your question, Larry, but both fixes include software updates - something that will undoubtedly be affecting greater and greater numbers of cars as we drive into the future.
having worked in that field...
and having worked with quite a few software developers as well as the users of that software...
a software program that twiddles bits and a failure mode causes digital unpleasantness
is quite different from a piece of software that controls a radiation device pointed at your gonads.
the standard for the safeguards built into the programs is way different but it's such a new field (relatively) that many software programmers/developers don't necessarily realize this.
so in a car.. it's one thing for a computer to screw up the fuel mix and screw up the gas mileage.. it's quite another for it to put an air bag in your face at 60 mpg and no crash.
I'm not sure how long "fly-by-wire" brakes have been around but a one-second "delay" in a software program is not good.
In a computer environment where 1000 computational cycles happen in one second - a one second "delay" is not a "glitch" but an error of some kind.
if your steering wheel was 'fly-by-wire' (and it will be soon), a one-second delay would be deadly.
now i'm following you. i also worked for a software company in a past life and find the growing importance of software in vehicles quite fascinating.
and you are right, at least in my opinion. anything that makes you feel like the brakes aren't working correctly, even if just for a split second, even in rare circumstances, is an issue that should be resolved.
fortunately, it sounds like it was an easy fix for both Ford and Toyota that had already been implemented on new builds, at least that's my take from what i've read.
it's uploading these fixes onto older vehicles that is the big issue. is it essential? is it mostly an annoyance, or is the real potential for danger?
for instance, I can see a toyota bean-counter, saying, chances are that less than 1/2 of 1 percent will ever experience such a problem. of that group only 10 percent will get into an accident. of that group only 10 percent will be injured and probably not seriously.
so, do these cars really need the fix right now, or can it be uploaded the next time you get an oil change?
at least that's my guess at what's going, particularly in Toyota's case where almost 300,000 Prius hybrids are affected.
If you do software - you know how hard it is to test it for every conceivable set of variables and that is the challenge of software that controls stuff that can kill you.
99% works just dandy if the only "oh oh" is a badly formed font on the printer...
but 99% in an automobile is not going to get it ...
1% times billions of events will produce a large number of casualties.. and not acceptable.
so the guy that programs the fuel injector cannot use the same standards when programming the brakes or steering or air bags.
but that entire team probably sit together in an office complex.
anybody that has worked around software knows that there are going to be accidents, probably deaths unfortunately, caused by software bugs, glitches, etc.
still, if we can swallow 10,000 rollover deaths per year - as callous as it sounds - we can swallow a few software deaths.
and, if it does come down to software, the patches, updates, etc can usually be implemented quite quickly. in fact, almost instantly.
its getting the updates onto the cars that is critical. can you send such patches wirelessly? would you want to? that opens the platform up to hackers, viruses, etc.
of course, apple has done a pretty good job of proving that you can keep wireless transmissions pretty safe. and since automakers don't have to open their platforms up to too many third parties, they should be able to do the same.
ultimately, however, the idea of fixing every software bug with a recall that requires a trip to the dealership will become an outdated protocol as software gains importance - at least i believe it has to.
otherwise, dealerships will have tons of work, but little revenue as most of these updates would have to be under warranty.
software, the behind-the-scenes leader of the automotive revolution!
have you hard of or seen a service bulletin or recall for automobile software?
I have not.. but stuff gets by me all the time.
outside of hybrids, no.
but, from my understanding, the software in conventional vehicles is FAR less sophisticated than what is in hybrids and other electric vehicles.(still, i think there are software updates when hooked up to your dealership's servicing computers, but i don't know for sure)
when you have a huge OS, such as in hybrids and EVs, why not incorporate more software subsystems into a greater platform? opens up the door for greater efficiencies and, unfortunately, some bugs. but i think the efficiency potential far outweighs the bug potential.
one of the big issues where I worked was configuration management which is techno-talk for knowing which software updates go on which year/model/variant target platform.
AND being able to test each of them before shipping the software to be installed.
Only in the last few years have they got this straightened out on home computers...
doing a software-update on a car that results in the car version of the Blue Screen of Death would not be well tolerated by the customer.
"Sorry sir..something went wrong in the software update of your Lexus and it is dead as a doornail until a tech arrives from the west coast".
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