Ford Fusion hybrid the best hybrid in the US?
The best car for America?Boy, career paths are an important choice. It's a good thing that MSNBC's Dan Carney become a reporter for the auto business, rather than the someone working IN the auto business.
This morning Dan calls the Ford Fusion hybrid the best hybrid available in the US.
"It is the best in the U.S. in part because it is the best for the U.S. It wears no egg-shaped hypermile bodywork, doesn’t ask its occupants to contort themselves to fit inside like the old pack-college-students-in-a-VW stunt and doesn’t demand any creative financing for regular Americans with regular jobs to purchase it."
Really, Dan? So, then where are all the sales? If the best hybrid for regular Americans, why can Ford only sell 30-something thousand units per year? I guess sales don't matter for reporters?
I love the Fusion hybrid. In fact, if I were in the market for a car today, I'd probably buy a Fusion hybrid. Nonetheless, the fact remains that most Ford buyers aren't interested in the Fusion hybrid, nor are most Fusion buyers or hybrid buyers in general.
Years ago, Michelle Krebs from the Auto Observer said the same thing about GM's dual mode hybrid powertrain. Yet, after years, sales are still essentially non-existent. Great technology is, well, great, but it has to be both great AND cost-effective.
Inevitably, it just seems silly to me to call the Fusion hybrid the best hybrid in the US. Ultimately, the best hybrid in the US has to be one that can actually sell at least 100,000 units in the US year after year. Sadly, the Fusion hybrid doesn't seem on a trajectory to ever even come close to such a sale's figure.
Labels: Ford fusion hybrid, Hybrid Vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
9:18 AM
19 Comments:
As a buyer, who once dismissed an idea to buy Prius, I can hear the reporter's arguments. However, Ford Fusion is not the only car of this kind. Camry Hybrid is another one with all these nice properties. He should have compared both cars. It is a Japanese car, however. Therefore, this patrioteer turns his blind eye to it. Shame on him.
well he's not the only one who likes it:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Ford_Fusion-Hybrid/
if this car actually gets 41/36 and can be had for around 28K, it's going to be a competitor and I would not be surprised in a year or two to see it doing quite well.
Ya'll have to let the Prius go. It's a funky car in some respects and as much as it appeals to those who like "quirky", there are others that find the Prius not something that reflects their tastes.
I think some folks want a plain-jane car that gets 40+ mpg and can easily carry 4 folks and/or luggage.
Ya'll should be glad that the Fusion is going to take the hybrid more mainstream....
Larry G,
excellent point. A funky car, which is in many cases more expensive than both hybrid Fusion and Camry. Who cares for these additional 10 mpgs (40 is good enough for years to come), when the car does not have enough space for luggage.
yeah... I got your point but you gotta realize that many people want to be BEHIND the bleeding edge...
they are NOT first adopters/innovators...
they're the ones who just got their first cell phone and all it does is "phone".... not "txt" or "google"....
If you want Hybrids to take off mainstream.. this is the market that you want to start buying them - because this is the market that ultimately will allow them to become widely mass-produced and a standard part of any car model lineup.
and you should also be glad that it's a FORD - the sole one of the big 3 that has demonstrated they DO understand the market.
come on now...fess up.. just a tiny bit... this is a good thing.
The Fusion Hybrid is a good step forward for Ford.
This car will compete very well with the Camry hybrid and will probably out sell it.
Don't stop there though.... Let's keep moving forward and develop smaller, lower cost hybrids, as well as sporty hybrids, hopefully with a convertible top.
here's something else that will further motivate the market:
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/02/09/ford-confirms-transit-connect-ev-with-smith-electric-for-2010/
sorry about the use of a competitor!
larry-
still, sales are sales.
toyota sold 140,000 prius hybrids in the US and 174,000 total hybrids in the US.
ford sold 34,000 total hybrids (fusion, milan, escape, tribute).
the fact is the fusion hybrid doesn't resonate with enough buyers after a year of sales - a year in which it still qualified for tax credits, while Toyota hybrids did not - to really matter.
likewise, toyota could assuredly get more mileage out of the camry hybrid, but it would have to increase the price as well. the evidence, however, doesn't support such a move.
its no different than the future of plug-in vehicles. sure greater EV mileage sounds great, but price - not range - will determine success. that's why toyota will use less batteries and offer less EV range, but better pricing than its competitors.
in my opinion ford was hell bent on providing better gas mileage than toyota's camry hybrid, not on achieving a meaningful increase in hybrid production. unfortunately, this move was more about marketing than anything else.
if ford has such a revolutionary hybrid powertrain, why not put it in a prius-competitor and try to sell 100,000+? why not prove, head on, that you're better than toyota?
the fusion hybrid is a great car, but it's not really changing the hybrid market place, and it never will as long as it uses a NiMH pack.
and when we move to lithium, then everything will have to be re-evaluated.
as smurf notes, its a good step forward, but that's it. quite frankly, the numbers simply speak for themselves on this issue.
actually, that was 195,545 total hybrids sold in US by Toyota
Dahc,
I tend to think that you are unnecessarily bashing Ford. I will try not to think that you are promoting Toyota, but it is not easy.
Again, sales figures say nothing of the kind yet. Just because Toyota is selling hybrids in US for 8-9 years, while Ford is only starting.
LB-
Ford started selling hybrids in 2004.
Then, according to the ex-CEO and current Board head, Ford was ramping up its hybrid efforts to sell about 200,000 hybrids per year by now.
Still, I'm not trying to be harsh on Ford, I'm being harsh on the idea that the fusion hybrid - built in Mexico - is the best hybrid in America.
well you oughta cheer for Ford because if hybrids are going to accelerate in popularity and sales - the production of a standard-looking vehicle will not hurt.
The earlier Ford Hybrids were clearly upscale vehicles not targeted to the average person.
This one looks to me to be very mainstream... and yes.. give it a coupe of years... you could not have picked a worse time to try to launch a new model....
larry-
i'm not sure you can call the escape hybrid much more upscale than the fusion hybrid. likewise the escape series sells almost as well as does the fusion.
also, the camry is a perennial best seller - better than the fusion - that has come in a hybrid option for years now. so, ford isn't the first one to try to mainstream hybrids.
toyota learned years ago that the pricing margin between a camry and a camry hybrid - not fuel economy - determines success.
ford knew this when they built the fusion hybrid. they knew it wasn't going to be a big seller, especially when it costs MORE than the Camry hybrid, and increased the price difference between a conventional fusion and a fusion hybrid. that's why ford contracted only a small battery production increase.
i didn't do this. ford did this. knowingly.
until Ford can put a lithium battery into the fusion, ford isn't planning any big production increases. yet, lithium changes the dynamics of any hybrid comparison fundamentally.
so ford's trump of toyota's technology is only significant in the short term, only significant in terms of marketing in the short term.
that doesn't mean i don't love the fusion hybrid itself, i do. likewise, i'm a big fan of mulally.
still, if the car has extremely limited sales potential until the battery revolution - when everything about hybrids significantly changes - how important can it really be?
btw-
for the record, i do have a few contacts at ford. i've questioned them about this battery issue - the angle i suggest in my comments - for almost a year now.
to date ford's comment on this issue has been 'no comment'.
You're right about the escape... not upscale.. except in price...
but why no hybrid version of the Corolla or the Rav4 instead of the Highlander?
I would claim that the closest model match to the Fusion and Escape is the Corolla and Rav4.
no?
" still, if the car has extremely limited sales potential until the battery revolution - when everything about hybrids significantly changes - how important can it really be?"
I don't think you need a battery revolution for the ICE hybrid and there is plenty of good functionality with that car in terms of it powering down when stopped and/or idling and getting, in general, much, much better gas mileage and much fewer emissions.....
That car, as is, with some decent quality control and normal evolutionary changes will continue into the future for a long time...and will be able to bide it's time as a bridge technology until/unless major battery breakthroughs occur.
Even if we saw a huge breakthrough tommorrow, I'd bet that it's going to take 5 to 10 years to get it into a normal manufacturing production stream so your conventional hybrids are going to be around a while.
and if they go mainstream... the price of the technology will come down... and we may see further optimizing innovations.
supposedly, toyota is going to offer a hybrid option for every vehicle within the next decade.
in terms of the highlander, when toyota announced the highlander hybrid, interest was phenomenal, but the price difference ended up being too much for most consumers.
then toyota tried the camry hybrid. it worked a little, but again the pricing difference was too much overall until hybrid costs can be decreased more.
the prius, on the other hand, is kind of a corolla hybrid, but the price difference is hidden by the uniqueness of the prius.
so, i think toyota has kind of been learning as it has gone along.
the rav4 is an interesting option that probably would have been a much better output for hybrid tech. i think in hindsight, toyota probably would have taken that path. but hindsight is always 20/20.
i can't, however, agree with the corolla fusion comparison. if so, then ford really blew the pricing for the fusion. i'd say the fusion, at least in terms of toyota comparisons, is much more like the camry than the corolla.
you just made my point larry.
ford is not interested in mass-producing NiMH hybrids.
that means Ford will limit production on the Fusion hybrid until lithium or some other battery breakthrough.
just checked. you're correct.
I agree that sales numbers are the key measurement.
Ford sold over 400,000 F-150 trucks in 2009, and only 34,000 total hybrids.
These kinds of number will do absolutely nothing to improve foreign oil dependence, pollution, global warming etc...
When Ford starts selling 100,000 hybrids in a year I'll be ready to give them an award for best hybrid. With their 2009 numbers they don't even qualify for a door prize......
Post a Comment
<< Home