When did Toyota pull the plug on plug-in hybrids?
Toyota the plug-in naysayer?During a period of more than 3 years Toyota tested about 150 lithium-powered plug-in Prius hybrids - a fleet still larger than GM's current Chevy Volt fleet - logging more than 1 million real world miles in almost every type of driving condition imaginable. The lithium batteries used proved safe and reliable, but still cost-ineffective.
Next month, Toyota will produce another 350 plug-in hybrids, followed by another 150 early next year, for further testing. This time however, the goal isn't based on safety and reliability. Instead, Toyota's new goal is to provide the most cost-effective plug-in hybrid package based on real world driving needs and conditions.
Over the last few years Toyota has claimed that they would produce plug-in hybrids as soon as the technology was ready, and for Toyota 'ready' means cost-effective in addition to safe and reliable. Coincidentally, Toyota knows a little something about the cost-effectiveness of new technologies.
Today, about 70 - 80 percent of new car customers are interested in purchasing hybrid cars, a segment dominated by Toyota. With such high interest, why is market share still only about 3 percent? According to consumer surveys it all boils down to costs, and consumer surveys on plug-in hybrids tell a similar story.
So, why is Toyota bashed for stating the obvious?
Finish: When did Toyota pull the plug on plug-in hybrids?
Labels: Chevy Volt electric vehicle concept, plug-in hybrid vehicles, toyota prius
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:30 AM
13 Comments:
so who ya gonna believe with respect to their opinion about whether or not plug-ins are ready for prime-time - GM or Toyota?
good point, Larry. Very good point...
There is something to be said for solid, reality based engineering...
Hybrid technology is full of innovation. Toyota is the best product I ever had.
Thanks for sharing the useful information with me.
I completely agree with you. I think people buy into the 40 "feel good" EV mile hype.
Electrifying the short trips will give the best bang for the buck because that's when cars get the worse mileage. 13 miles is all you need for this purpose.
The blended PHV is the most realistic and cost effective approach. It will have the advantages of EV and HV.
Dennis,
I concur.
PHEV's and hybrid's are a better use of battery resources. It's better to put a 40-mile battery into 30 cars then to put a 300-mile battery into 4 cars.
Larry-
Ultimately, GM isn't really saying that plug-ins are ready for prime time if top 10 monthly sales, for instance, is your benchmark.
GM knows full well that the Volt will be a niche vehicle for several years, minimally.
My worry with GM is that they've been too fixated on the marketing of the Volt, rather than the reality of plug-in cost-effectiveness. My assumption is that the Volt's technology will work, but it will be too aggressive to achieve scale any time soon.
Conversely, while I don't believe the plug-in Prius will be cost effective for most consumers either, it will be more cost-effective than the Volt for most consumers. In my opinion that provides much better scalable potential and quicker plug-in adoption potential.
well .. perhaps...
my point .. was that between Toyota and GM - shepherding a new technology along - and knowing and understand the balance between marketing and the public expectation of whether the vehicle is "ready" for prime-time.. I think Toyota is a more deliberate and careful player.
The thing to keep in mind about any larger corporate (or govt or NGO) organization is that it is made up of individuals, personalities - and a more nebulous thing called "culture" that can in itself be complex - and changing ... or steady...
Toyota's "culture" seems to understand that your customers expectations of the cars they purchase - needs to be sustainable - to the point when it comes time to get another one - it's not a debate about which manufacture but instead about which model with the same manufacturer.
I think GM's corporate culture is one of the most damaging and malignant in the industry IMHO.
People who buy a Toyota expect it to perform - the same way when the bought it - later on... the same car .. just with some age on it.
People who buy a GM car, I think, expect to trade it in when it gets to the point that it's no longer a "good" car.
It didn't used to be that way by the way... but I think it is now.
I'm not sure how to prove my supposition but a thought would be to see what percentage of Toyota's are leased versed GM cars.
I think leasing is a very popular option for folks who don't want to deal with an older, less reliable car... but again. I've often got more mouth than I have genius...
i totally agree that GM has had a somewhat dysfunctional culture, but there have been some serious changes in GM's corporate ranks, in addition to a brand new board.
it will be interesting to see how that plays out, larry.
still, gm spends a lot of time trying to change perception. obviously, they need to do that, and the Volt is a key driver of this change in perception. however, rather than trying to seize the marketing advantages of being first to market with a vehicle like the volt, i'd prefer that GM consume itself with being able to be the sales leader of plug-in vehicles.
for that goal, i don't think the Volt is on track. perhaps that can be changed as GM moves forward, but i agree that toyota is taking a much more pragmatic approach, as well as an approach much less focused on marketing.
of course, toyota has the prius right now. why distract attention?
on the other hand, gm needs the marketing of the volt desperately to improve their image, but that shouldn't be an excuse for less pragmatism.
look at GM's current marketing campaign, much focused on fuel economy - at least highway fuel economy. GM constantly compares itself to Honda and Toyota, but the fact of the matter is that GM's fleet fuel economy is pretty pathetic compared to both Toyota and Honda.
maybe that is about to change, but it would be nice to see more results and a little less marketing.
so... when ya'll see the GM commercials claiming that their guys are getting better mileage than equivalent Toyotas and Hondas - do you believe them?
I'm a skeptic.. myself...
but I think my own views tend to illustrate what a tough job GM has to rehabilitate it's image and the public perceptions.
I'll say this.. they're tearing them up on OnsTaR. Give them credit - they were way ahead of everyone else on the field of Telematics and they know it.
a few more things like that - and it might present people with some tougher choices..
but for the plug-ins, let's assume something here - just for the sake of examining Toyota and GM's stance on the maturity of the technology.
Toyota is very clearly saying "it's not ready for prime time and it's got promise if we ever get a battery technology solution".
GM, on the other hand is saying what?
Let's put some boundaries on it.
Top boundary. Are they saying that in a few years, their entire fleet will offer plug-in variants ? nope.
Bottom boundary.
Are they saying that the Volt is basically a concept vehicle that they are going to put into limited production - just the same as Toyota is with their limited numbers of plug-ins?
Nope.
They've left the perception that the VOLT .. WILL BE the first version of a production hybrid - ..yup... with virtually nothing said about what comes next after the VOLT with that technology.
Are you feeling uncomfortable yet?
I' am.
OnStar is a fantastic feature. Too bad GM couldn't make it free for the life of their vehicles.
In terms of the Volt, I believe you're barking up the right tree. And that wouldn't be so bad if GM had a more well-rounded portfolio of fuel efficient solutions that actually made them a leader in fleet fuel economy, but at this point, they don't. the cruze and spark, for instance, might help, but i don't think they are enough.
cars that have a good reputation as fuel efficient and reliable - and durable is the best kind of "marketing" in my view.
reputation is hard to earn and easy to lose...
not sure that the majority of yahoos at GM buy into that view.
Toyota understands it.
i think that has been changing at GM the last few years, but not fast enough.
there are a lot of new leaders at GM today, and if they can recruit the right kind of CEO, maybe that change can be accelerated.
considering the tax dollars invested in GM, i certainly hope so.
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