Consumer Reports - Hybrids very reliable
A big winner according to Consumer ReportsLooking for a safe family car? Then you might want to consider a number of hybrid cars, at least if you believe in Consumer Reports.
The Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius scored extremely well according CR, followed by the Ford Fusion hybrid, the Mercury Milan hybrid, the Toyota Camry hybrid, and the Nissan Altima hybrid.
Overall, Asian automakers are still the most reliable automakers, but Ford has made huge gains that put most of its products on par with the best of the best. Chrysler and GM, on the other hand, still have work to do.
Labels: Consumer Reports, Hybrid Vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:56 AM
21 Comments:
The trouble with American Hybrids are two-fold:
1. - First, they probably won't get the claimed MPG while the Japanese Hybrids will.
2. - If you want to mess around with a new technology and still produce a reliable car - don't expect the American companies to do this.
they have a track record of not getting new technology "right" and at the same time loving the dollars it brings in to their parts and service operations.
Consumers, however, take dim view of this kind of thing and so they seek the safety of companies who have an earned reputation of doing new technology "right".
this is part of what the American companies do not "get".
You cannot screw over your customers without them at some point - realizing that they have been done wrong... and.. while it might take a while for some of them to finally realize it...once they do.. they remember.
The above should be etched in stone - a very large, very heavy stone and implanted at the front entrance of every American Car Corporate Headquarters.
When I owned American cars.. I LOATHED having to deal with the service department.
It was like as soon as I entered the room.. the "service advisors" would have this " Ah a new one to screw over" look on their faces...
Last time.. Ford Windstar - something wrong with the front end - $2400.. fixed at local repair shop for $200.....
fool me once shame on you
fool me twice shame on me
I hear you. And I read another article this morning that claimed that the results for Ford aren't quite as good if you look at the data a bit deeper, which I have not done.
Still, Ford has been doing a lot of things right, and the their hybrid technology has been pretty solid the last several years. Their inability to secure battery supplies has been the big issue.
Despite Ford's 'improvements', what does this say about the rest of the US auto industry?
my only parts/service experience has been with FORDS and Toyota and while it might be a local situation my impression was/is that the Ford Dealer operates in a predatory fashion using pressure tactics on expensive, overpriced repair work and the Toyota dealer does not.
Toyota parts and service are not cheap but they're IMHO much more up front with the need and cost and the FORD folks are not.
If the FORD was a super-reliable car that got the MPG it advertised - I'd grit my teeth and be prepared to do battle with their service weenies as a necessary compromise but with all things considered - reliability, truthful MPG and predatory parts/service - it's no contest.
they might be better.. or getting better.. but with other more reliable alternatives available, I'm not in much of a hurry.
Besides the Toyotas will pretty much last for decades... before they need replacement...
one more thing.
Toyota sends a survey asking about the service experience.
FORD would not DARE do that because they know the answers before they ask.
That tells me that they don't really want to know.. and Toyota does want to know.
This goes ALL THE WAY BACK to the production line where Toyota implements Demmings principles where workers are punished for not stopping the assembly line if something is wrong whereas at the American plants, the onus is on the worker so the American companies reward the workers that keep quiet about defects and punish those that warn about them.
maybe they've changed.. I dunno
that's an angle i haven't thought of much, as i haven't been to a ford servicing department since i was in high school.
my dad has bought nothing but Fords his entire life, despite numerous and serious problems with many of them.
he did, however, stop going to the ford servicing department because he felt their recommendations were often unnecessary and terribly predatory at times.
and he didn't want to leave them, but after complaining to the manager a number of times on multiple occasions he started to realize this might just be business as usual.
my toyota service departments haven't always provided the cheapest service, but i've never felt they've tried to sell me on unnecessary servicing. in fact, if anything, it's been the opposite.
this "experience" is an important aspect of owning a car IMHO.
Our next car is likely going to be a Hybrid but probably a Toyota.
Indigo Incarnates
i have only one Ford experience, but it was a good one. I worked for a roofing company in the early 1990s. The truck ran for over 250,000 miles and only ever needed two repairs: a heater core and a water pump.
I would buy a Fusion hybrid tomorrow if I could afford one.
I use Ford Vans and they are tough and have longevity but the dealer experience when they do have issues is not good.
I seldom visit the Dealer any more unless there is no other way ...
They simply have lost my trust.
I'd like to see a survey of consumers and their car dealers parts&service experiences.
Ford could make a wonderful hybrid but if I have to depend on the dealer to deal with a malfunction.. I have no confidence.
With Toyota - I KNOW they WILL fix it without a repeat trip and without trying to rip me off... with Ford .. I don't have that good feeling...
Indigo Incarnates
Of course, if I can afford a hybrid for my next car, it'll probably be a Honda. I like the looks of the Prius, but not the extra $5,000 that the dealers always want to tack on.
I'd go with a Honda also. I think Hondas are a bit underrated and Toyota a bit overrated sometimes.
but if Kia/Hyundai are others get into the fray - it ought to pull prices down..
When you look at the economy out there right now and the number of people who been hurt economically but still want/need transportation.. the 10K car is going to become a major force in the market in my view.
I think that this argument of American vs. Foreign cars is stuck in the 1980's. What is more American, a Buick built in Canada or a Camry built in the U.S? No car is made with 100% domestic content and my experience with Ford/Lincoln has been very positive. Is it possible that your negative experience with "American" car dealers is not indicative of what most others experience?
yes... it could be...
so your experience with Ford has been good - as good or better than your experience with "foreign" makers?
others have an opinion?
Indigo Incarnates
I did download a groovy Insight-II control panel simulator to my iPhone. It's a freebie from Honda. Basically, it uses the GPS and accelerometer on the phone to give visual feedback for driving. There's a speedo, blue/teal/green feedback arc, and a bar graph that goes from "accelerating too hard" to "braking too hard". At the end of the drive, it tells you if you earned 0, 1, 2, or 3 "leaf" symbols -- just like a real Insight-II would. It's pretty cool. :)
Larry: I'd say my Ford experience has been as good as my Honda experience.
That said... my GM experience leaves a lot to be desired. Back in the late 1980s and all through the 1990s, my dad was a HUGE Pontiac fan. He also got his cars special-ordered in candy apple red. His three Pontiacs never outlasted the payments. The Fiero GT was literally in the shop more than on the road, due to curious electrical problems (dead at 50k miles). His Pontiac Grand Prix had an ongoing problem with the brakes, which made it a regular in the service bays (dead at 50k miles). The Grand AM regularly blew alternators. In addition, the car had so much torque steer that one usually started the car in second gear (dead at 70k miles).
Of course, then he bought a Mitsubishi Starrion (a foreign car) that was somehow actually WORSE. It blew a turbocharger practically every time the car was driven, and you could get a flat tire by running over a cigarette butt. (Traded away at 30k miles).
My father-in-law is a GM man and whether it is Pontiac (sic), or Buick or the latest - a Cadillac, they all have problems - and they get worse as the car gets older.
The Buick at 8 years old (but only 30K) was given to daughter and the car promptly died and $1000 later is still unreliable.
things like this - drive most folks towards the cars that Consumers Reports rates as "reliable".
especially in hard economic times when folks just simply cannot afford $1000 to get your car out of the shop - repair bills.
anonymous-
the facts are still clear, japanese brands are more reliable across more product lines than are american vehicles, regardless of the servicing side of this thread.
but it's a double whammy for some of us because in the process of actually dealing with the problems of the American cars - at the service level - some of them see that as the perfect excuse to rip you off further.
They do not "get it" in terms of the fact that FIRST you have a car made by them that is not reliable and THEN you ALSO have to do battle with them to keep them from screwing you over because they did not produce a reliable car in the first place.
In other words.. did they produce a less reliable car on purpose so they could get more money out of you?
i sure hope not, larry, but that's a very scary thought.
yet, the auto industry has done some of the best bean-counting in accounting history. in the past, your scenario - it seems - was a reality.
numerous lawsuits, nader's unsafe at any speed, etc. have demonstrated the reality - at least in the past - of the kind of thought process.
indigo-
i really like the honda hybrids as well, but for my driving conditions, the Hybrid Synergy Drive is just sooo much more effective.
Still, i'd never pay a dealer markup on a prius or any other vehicle.
"so your experience with Ford has been good - as good or better than your experience with "foreign" makers?
others have an opinion?"
I have had several Fords over the years, from Mustangs to T-Birds and one Explorer.
I have had good luck with the vehicles and the service.
My current Ford is a '99 Explorer Sport 2WD (Before they got too big) with 125,000 miles. I've had one repair, a thermostat. All the rest of the maintenance was preventative maintenance.....
"Green" is nothing more that marketing and markup hype. The average hybrid owner will have to keep, and maintain, the vehicle for over 15 years just to break even.
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