Audi President claims Volt and EVs for "idiots" and "intellectual elite"
"A car for idiots"?During an MSN interview Audi of America President Johan de Nysschen called the Chevy Volt "a car for idiots" largely because of its price premium. In fact, he claims the Volt will be a failure, but that the government will continue to subsidize the Volt because of its investment into GM.
Likewise, de Nysschen also slammed full electric cars saying, "They're for the intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are." However, he did concede that, theoretically, plug-in hybrids could offer advantages over diesel.
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:34 AM
20 Comments:
How about this:
All plug-ins must pay whatever the price is for clean power.
In other words, if we bring the plug-ins to market, we must also bring to market renewable power sources for them - and they have to pay the going rate for renewable power?
Would the "green cred" folks still be interested in Plug-ins or would they prove themselves to be "elites" in disguise?
that doesn't seem to be at all the direction we are headed when it comes to plug-ins.
most utilities,etc are going to try to market their cheapest rates to plug-in drivers via smart metering, etc.
How about this:
Let's make everyone pay the true cost of driving an automobile and see what everyone drives then. Until then, this statement is nothing but attention whoring!
I'll see your true cost of driving autos and raise you the true cost of using coal to power "green" plug-ins... - which is more than a one-to-one tradeoff in pollution.
Coal pollutes more than gasoline.
besides if you're gonna charge for the true cost of autos - wouldn't every kind of car essentially be subsidized the same way?
I think the theory de-jure for plug-ins right now is that some number of plug-ins can essentially scavenge the unused base load at night.
I have not seen that number but I'll bet that it is not a consistent - "this much excess power is ALWAYS available"
For instance, if one unit needed to go down - another unit or multiple units will divert their "idling" capacity to help fill the gap.
I think the term "excess capacity" is probably true but the amount actually available at any given time might vary considerably.
no?
I think the shine on the green cred on plug-ins will become considerably tarnished the first time the coal plant folks come out and say they need more plants to supply the demand...
true? not true?
Larry G,
These elite labels are complete bullshit. It is especially funny to hear such bullshit from an expensive brand CEO.
Plug-in cars are a good way to accumulate wind/solar etc renewable energy, whose production is not very reliable. It will also boost research on renewable energy and bring cheaper solar panels to the market.
In addition, night electricity is not used efficiently, which provides a room for, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of plugin and electric vehicles right now. Plus, we do have plenty additional source of renewable energy, e.g. hydro power, but using it right now is not possible by many reasons, including economical.
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I wouldn't mind seeing that either, Zendude, although it would probably instantly bankrupt America, and that's just today's costs.
Add in the legacy costs and it becomes out right embarrassing.
Still, guys like Bob Lutz have essentially made the same claim, they're just saying it in a different way, which is really ironic.
While this statement is crass and almost enraging, is it not somewhat true?
LB-
Technically you are right, but it's going to take decades to achieve critical ground in this direction.
That's the market reality.
And, is being part of the intellectual elite a bad thing?
I think this guy had a few too many scotches before this interview. Either that or he's trying to upstage Bob Lutz.
I agree.. he sounded like a bore - but what he said has a certain truth to it.
As we are coming to realize (I hope) - hybrids and plug-ins are not the solution.
If we end up with no net decrease in GHG and a net increase in mercury.. in a way .. all we're doing is trading energy independence for more mercury pollution and a LOT more mountaintop removal.. which is a very nasty, destructive way to generate energy for "green" cars...
so we need to face some simple truths.. on the issue..
more efficient cars are good but they only work around the margins of the harder issues.
By now.. I think most folks are starting to get a whiff of what GM is doing with it's Volt - and it's not green.. but more akin to greenwashing... back to their old tricks (in my view).
a pretty cynical way to market cars which was the point of the Audii guy...
I keep looking for what I call - "essential bargains".. proposals with a little bit of sour and a little bit of sweet.
For instance:
Play solar-power rates for electricity for plug-ins - but get access to HOV and free tolls (to a point).
so. instead of going for the whole loaf.. go for the 1/2 .. and do a bit of that toad swallowing...
I think if people think they are doing the right thing.. and they get a little sweetener they can brag to their friends how cool it is to be "green".. you know .. green "perks".
Larry G.,
Hybrids and simply more efficient cars will not solve ALL problems, e.g. they will not save our Sun, which will die in 4+ something billion years. However, they are a part of solution. What you are saying about pollution is largely true, but don't forget that technology is always changing and becoming greener. It needs mass production and economies of scale.
Dahc,
I don't mind to belong to whatever elite, unless it is not used as an insult. And that stupid stuff about enlightenment...
larry-
i think hybrids and plug-ins are a huge part of a potential solution, especially if cap and trade legislation is passed.
if not, expect the cheapest energy to rule for even longer.
nonetheless, since you brought up solar, why not a solar/plug-in dual tax credit - and I mean a generous tax credit.
if plug-in drivers generate their own electricity, then a vehicle like the Volt could still be very relevant.
while i'm very critical of the Volt, in terms of GM's key green technology, at least in terms of marketing, it shouldn't be written off just yet.
certainly, the greenwashing is annoying, but there are realistic applications for the Volt that could make it far more cost-effective as GM, hopefully, masters battery technology.
and, yes, more coal plants will suck despite whatever sequestering, etc. technologies are promised, but i believe that might be a toad i would swallow if it ended foreign oil dependency a decade or two earlier than any other path.
nonetheless, despite the potential of hybrids and plug ins, other possibilities should be explored. it is conceivable that other green technologies could prove more effective by every critical measure.
I think a breakthrough in solar panels that makes them 50% (more or less) efficient changes the game - not only with hybrids but other things.
without that breakthrough.. a carbon tax that adds significantly to the cost of electricity will be very harmful to the economy .. and the irony of that would be that tight economies tend to hunker down and cut R&D efforts.
just like the bad timing with the health care issue and a bad economy... I am almost fearful of any kind of a cap & trade tax right now...
People are under a lot of stress... and I know .. the argument will be "if not now, when....? " but .....
I like your solar/plug-in credit.
How about this: Many homes have natural gas - how about a natural gas (or propane) backup generator that can be used to recharge the plug-in AND be used when the grid itself is at capacity and/or there are outages?
I know at one point.. there was the idea that the grid could use the battery in plug-ins rather than firing up new plants (in effect using the plug-in as backup power) .. but that seems pretty problematical.. you got your car plugged in and in 8 hours you need it fully charged and the power company has been poaching it so it's not fully charged when you expected it to be.
Larry, I agree with you that coal is a bigger problem than gasoline in regards to GHG's. I don't understand these car executives who make these stupid comments. Do they think that they will attract business this way? No one knows what way going forward is best but innovation always wins in the end. Although Jim Collins is arguing these days that going in the wrong direction is worse than doing nothing. I guess that is what these CEO's are thinking but in the auto industry, the most innovative companies are doing the best.
Innovation.
Innovation by its very nature requires going in the wrong direction every now and again.
Certainly that's no guarantee of successful innovation, but I'm confident it works a lot better than doing nothing.
innovation ....used to be part of what make this country a leader in the world...
now days we seem to be more worried about the other countries getting our jobs sewing underwear or putting bolts on nuts...
If we make breakthroughs in energy - the world beats a path to our door to get it.
and there's a huge side benefit - the rest of the world starts cutting GHG also.
Well he's right. A stupid car by a stupid company for stupid people. The less stupid but still stupid people can buy hybrids.
And then we wonder why we are still importing 70% of our oil with leadership like this.
I have to say... after listening to Hannity on FAUX news (yes that's a small "n") over and over and over ...brag about the fact that he has joined the ranks of those who care about the environment by buying a hybrid - a Cadillac Escalade Hybrid - "built for him"... by the "good folks at GM"...
.... I can't find the right words here... but the whole scene sorta exposes some aspects of hybrids that can make one wonder about why some folks buy them...
Hannity in case anyone doesn't know is a "drill baby drill" and "bomb Iran now" type of guy and he's claiming green cred because he can essentially "buy" green cred.
I think that might be where the Audi guy was coming from...
and I bet.. if you caught Mr. Hannity at an inebriated moment..he'd agree with the sentiment and admit that he got his hybrid to "make a statement".
I'm not dissing hybrids.. only pointing out that there is some level of cynicism about them in that some folks do not see them as much more than an elite fad that will not fundamentally change the basic energy fundamentals.
Those of us who do believe they are the beginning of fundamental change - need to be aware of this alternate viewpoint "out there".
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It sounds like Audi can't make electric cars and they are lashing out for it.
Tough words coming from a car company that makes stupidly heavy, very inefficient, and big time gas guzzling cars.
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