For media only: Buick plug-in hybrid
The Saturn Vue plug-in hybrid livesWe've known for some time that GM was going to build a plug-in hybrid SUV. Originally, the Saturn Vue was going to be the platform for GM's dual mode plug-in hybrid powertrain, but then GM killed Saturn.
Thus, the new hybrid will based on the GMC Terrain and the Chevrolet Equinox platform and will mate a 3.6-liter V6 flex-fuel engine with a plug-in version of the dual mode hybrid powertrain. Also, it will use similar lithium technology as the Chevy Volt. Expect this new hybrid sometime in 2011.
Certainly, it is a good sign that GM continues to move forward with its hybrid vehicles, but it's hard to accept this new hybrid - or most of GM's hybrids - as anything other than PR fodder and/or a CAFE hedge when GM's product head, Bob Lutz, claims green cars are more about the media than reality.
Have GM's hybrids and plug-ins become a joke?
With Bob Lutz claiming that only 5 percent of the population will be interested in vehicles like the Volt, or this new Buick plug-in, how seriously can GM be taking this market? It seems quite clear, based on Lutz's statements, that GM's endeavors into the Volt and other plug-in vehicles are more about PR than reality.
Labels: buick, GM, Hybrid Vehicles, plug-in hybrid vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
9:41 AM
8 Comments:
After 2011 GM will probably sell more plugin cars than Ford is selling hybrids today. Even if the purpose is PR, how is that a bad thing?
If we need more to be done for fuel independence lets push for more with all the force and passion we can muster, but poo-pooing the future plugins, when so many had been calling for plugins and plugins obviously need to be a part of the mix, is something I don't quite understand. Maybe that's just me.
I guess my point is that GM building plugins doesn't preclude them from building cheap hybrids. I agree they are not planning to build cheap hybrids, but I don't think the Volt is the reason they are not.
Maybe GM needs public pressure, maybe they need time to develop their technology for a cheap hybrid, maybe they ARE working on a cheap hybrid but don't want to distract from the Volt just yet. Maybe they need to license the Volt technology to Ford, and license Ford's hybrid technology. I'm just not ready to give up on GM, and I don't think they've done anything yet to close the doors on cheap hybrids, well other than refuse to license Toyota's hybrid tech, which I think is a real factor in holding back hybrids.
OK, got that off my chest. :)
Stating that only 5% would be interested in a Volt is amazing. When you consider it's a $40,000 car I don't think that most of the population would want a $40,000 car of that quality from GM, There are other cars that cost that much and offer more creature comforts. In my opinion 5% is high.
However, I think developing the technology is good, and you can't make something cheaper until you can make it in the first place. The Volt may cost GM a ton, but it should also offer a lot of lessons learned to help make other vehicles more efficient and cheaper in the future.
i'll take that bet, alcatholic. i bet GM won't sell as many plug-ins as Ford sells hybrids this year until 2013 at the earliest, but probably 2014 or 2015.
by NEXT year, Toyota might have the capacity to produce 1 million hybrids per year, while rolling out PHEVs and EVs.
so why pooh pooh GM?
let me count the ways. first, the dual mode hybrid was supposed to be far superior to Toyota. Then GM's BAS powertrain was supposed to be the most cost-effective and intelligent powertrain compared to Toyota. Then the Volt was supposed to leapfrog the Toyota Prius, but only cost $25,000.
for several years now GM has poo-poohed the Prius and hybrid cars, while claiming that its next hybrid tech would be so much better. of course, after years, the best to come of this has been the PR, not the product.
Yet, that really isn't my reason for poo-pooing GM. I'm willing to accept baby steps.
However, when your product guru claims that any real move to vehicles like the Volt are a figment of the media's imagination, it seems obvious that gm is using such technologies purely to appease the press and hedge their CAFE requirements - while taking advantage of billions in tax payer money.
that isn't a reason for anger and disappointment?
No, not for me. I respect your educated perspective and thoughtful opinions, but I just react differently to GM and their efforts.
As someone who NEVER paid attention to GM before the Volt, I see a GM that is making real investments ($1 billion for the Volt) and developing real technology for battery powered vehicles. And I see a government saving jobs, and investing in new manufacturing technologies. I even happen to like that Lutz is not a naive believer in hybrids, and yet is willing to make a car like the Volt. But I also don't think Lutz has the power to hold back the parts of GM that will drive the Volt and hybrids to eventual mainstream success. Plus he's 77. And I do expect GM to gain momentum in the area of hybrids, and go beyond their current stated plans, but first I think they need to learn how to make profitable, quality small cars and figure out a way around Toyota's hybrid patents and their lock on NiMH battery supplies.
This is what I see, and call me naive, but it's what I think is possible and necessary at this time for a company like GM.
If these efforts were just for PR and CAFE, they would be half-ass efforts, and I just don't see that. The moment I do suspect GM is acting in bad faith, I might just join you. I admit I haven't followed the car industry, so I might just be hopelessly naive. But I have some technology business sense, and so far GM passes my smell test.
Leaving GM's sincerity aside, and I don't know why I started to defend them when all I really meant by my original post is that I believe in plug-ins, I would like to refocus on plug-ins.
To the extent that plug-ins are going to be a factor in future energy policy/independence isn't it relevant that GM is the only US car maker making the absolutely critical investments today? I would agree their efforts are not enough in the grand scheme, but maybe that can be fixed with even greater public pressure and education or a gas tax or name your approach. Point being supporting plug-ins at this time means working on GM to improve their efforts not abandon them. Ford and Chrysler are not in the game.
It is a shame that no US car maker is making the investments needed for cheap hybrids. Maybe we can fix that, maybe we can't, but isn't that a separate question as to whether plug-ins are good, or even also good?
I have to say this is just more great news from the american auto industry.
Personally, I loved Buick back in the day, but dependability of US cars has waned over the past 10-20 years and so did my interest.
The new fresh look of brand like Buick with innovative ideas is changing my opinion about american cars and I'll likely consider making a purchase when these are available.
Frank
Bing Google, Google Bing - Why not get them both and Twitter on the new http://www.Infospace.com
how are ford and chrysler not in the plug-in game? Ford, for instance, is nearly ready to roll out EVs and PHEVs.
gm, on the other hand, had no choice but to invest in the Volt. and I'm not saying that GM is half-assing the Volt. that would be stupid and counter-productive.
nonetheless, while GM might believe in the Volt's long term potential, the Volt for now and the next several years IS about government money, CAFE credits and positive press. sure gm has invested a billion in the Volt, but how much has the government given GM for the Volt, including batteries? more than a billion I think at last count. so, what has GM really risked? and the Volt will be the impetus for more government loans, etc.
likewise, looking at the Volt from numerous angles results in a very questionable picture. there are many reasons to believe that the Volt is NOT the right kind of plug-in as there is to believe the Volt IS the right kind of plug-in.
other hybrid configurations are more cost-effective, and that is what drives consumers. moreover, in terms of plug-ins, leasing the battery is probably the long term solution. that business model does not favor the Volt. it favors pure EVs, especially if battery swapping proves viable.
and, in terms of hybrids versus plug-in, i don't think they should be separate questions. i think automakers need both and there should be commonality amongst these platforms. working on the volt should NEVER have been an excuse not to address a vehicle like the prius. and, it's not an excuse today or tomorrow.
inevitably, there is going to be a huge market for the Toyota Prius, and the current HSD, for decades. ignoring this market will hurt GM far more than ignoring the small car a few decades ago did.
I stand corrected on Ford's electrified car plans. I hadn't realized they were outsourcing the drive train to an existing Magna design. That is a smart move, I must admit.
Still, I think I just make a different judgement about the viability of series hybrids, the government subsidies, and whether the Volt was and is an excuse to not compete with the Prius. I don't discount your arguments given your knowledge of the industry, I'm just not convinced yet.
So, given that, probably the only way to deal with the disagreement is that bet you mentioned. Nothing against Ford. My dad and I have always been Ford guys.
Let's formalize it as GM will sell more plugin hybrids in 2012 than Ford sells hybrids in 2009.
Now, how many hybrids will Ford sell in 2009? I think we know how many they will build, 25K Ford Escape Hybrids, 25K Ford Fusion Hybrids, plus 50K of their Mercury conterparts, is that right? So, 100K hybrids built, but correct me if I'm wrong. Can we assume they sell all those in the US or do they distribute them worldwide? Should we only count US sold plugins or the overseas Volts and plugins as well?
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