Toyota halts diesel plans. Banking on gas hybrids
Diesel only for Europeans?Despite an uptick in recent US diesel vehicle sales, probably thanks to a significant drop in diesel fuel prices, Honda, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Nissan and Toyota have "halted diesel programs because of spiraling costs and other problems," according to AutoWeek.
Toyota followed up this news with the comment that they are "banking heavily" on gasoline-powered hybrid vehicles.
Labels: clean diesel, Hybrid Vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
11:40 AM
16 Comments:
I find it amazing that Europeans continue to embrace Diesel, CNG, LPG and various other fuels that are available "today", yet in the U.S. these options are ignored.
Diesel now represents the majority in Europe thanks to higher gasoline taxes and tax breaks for diesel.
Check out this link regarding the dieselization of Europe.
http://www.platts.com/Oil/Resources/News%20Features/eurodiesel/index.xml
I find it amazing that Toyota continues to fleece gullible North Americans into buying environmental disasters called gas-electric-hybrids, while Toyota sells more diesel vehicles outside NA than ALL world-wide production of hybrids from all automakers combined!
Toyota will not stop selling diesel vehicles as they are a big chunk of their business. Just not their NA business. The Prius is a marketing gadget invented when Toyota's SUVs were getting spray-painted by activists at a time when Toyota sold more models of SUVs than any other manufacturer (GM later usurped that title from them).
Fortunately hybrid production will be self-limiting as their ravenous appetite for rare and exotic materials will drive their material costs up even higher than today.
Now if we could just get Toyota to sell in North America the amazingly economical and environmentally friendly diesels that only the rest of the world gets to enjoy .... but I guess that won't happen. Foreign-based automakers are convinced that Americans do not want practical cars, and seem to be sticking to that tune.
(from an Engineer and CEO of a world-leading green-tech company)
Diesel is a joke....it's a low grade fuel that requires far more expensive processes to clean up and reduce its end emissions.
Just because the Europeans are using it, doesn't mean it's better. And I've grown up in Europe.
Hybrid cars DO NOT NECESSARILY need an IC engine. But concept of a hybrid is what's needed...a coupling of two technologies.
Rather than developing diesels, Toyota should develop fuel cell technology coupled with batteries to a point where it's feasible.
Diesels are not environmentally friendly and they are not economically any better. We're still using fossil based fuels.
Ride a bike or run behind a diesel and you will never call them environmentally friendly again!
anon-
i think you need to do some better research.
first, hybrids are fuel independent, and diesel hybrids are on the way.
second, clean diesel requires exotic materials which is part of the reason for the high costs of clean diesel technology.
third diesels are not "amazingly economical and environmentally friendly" in congestion - the same congestion transportation studies throughout the world claim is increasing and is to get exponentially worse in the years ahead.
finally, hybrid technology is still an emerging technology. new batteries, plug-in capabilities, etc. will make your entire argument seem retarded in another decade.
Well Im not sure how friendly the battery hybrids are - I mean it takes a COAL plant usually to produce the electricity to make the power to electrify your car. Secondly the 'green' battery is made in parts from around the world from strip mining to plastics manufacturing and more, a recent TV show said it uses way more energy to make a green car than a very efficient normal engine car ....
"Fortunately hybrid production will be self-limiting as their ravenous appetite for rare and exotic materials will drive their material costs up even higher than today."
What is so rare and exotic about the Nickel in NiMH HV battery packs?
Every car is made out of steel and steel has 6% Nickel. If you car weights 3,000 lbs then you have 180 lbs Nickel. NiMH HV battery pack contains only 23 lbs Nickel.
Ever wonder why 5 cents is called Nickel? You guessed it, it contains 25% Nickel.
a battery powered plug-in burns energy much more efficiently that does a gasoline-engined vehicle. there have been numerous studies demonstrating that well-to-wheel, or coal mine-to-wheel, coal powered plug-in hybrids are at least as clean as petroleum-powered vehicles. most studies, however, have seen gains in pollution reductions, but let's say it's a wash.
so, in a worst case scenario, at least we'd be free of foreign oil dependency? why not accept such a wash, end foreign oil dependency, and use that multi-hundred billion dollar yearly savings to develop cleaner coal plants, co2 sequestration and alternative energy?
moreover, batteries are a relatively new technology, at least for autos, so of course there are less supply chains. any emerging technology results in less supply chains initially.
this whole 'it takes more energy to build hybrids' is really a throw back to cave man thinking. innovation, almost always, is less efficient in the short run. over time, however, the gains are exponential.
i mean think about how inefficient the first computers were many decades ago and ridiculous the costs were. would it really have been so much better to bypass the computer revolution in the name of inefficient supply chains?
This post has been removed by the author.
Indigo Incarnates
Considering that steel and nickel are relatively easy to recycle, I don't see how hybrids constitute "environmental disasters". Also, a pure EV that is recharged from a coal power plant is still cleaner than a regular car.
some point to nickel smelting, but even that angle is usually based on aged data.
ultimately, this dirty hybrid angle is just nonsensical in my opinion.
Toyota says: "..halted diesel programs because of spiraling costs and other problems". This is obvious lie, in fact two. What spiraling costs are we talking about for a diesel engines which are selling like a hot cakes in EU? Obviously development is already done, and engines are in mass production. So, what is so expensive? Labels in US English? What are the "other problems"?
You obviously know nothing about clean diesel technology. The added costs of clean diesel technology are about the same as the added costs of hybrid technology on a Prius.
And, it wasn't just Toyota, but some American automakers as well.
Bob Lutz of GM, for instance, has been very critical of clean diesel technology for the US. Maybe their just tired of all the urea needed.
Moreover, if gasoline wasn't so heavily taxed in Europe, diesel wouldn't be nearly as popular.
Clean Diesel, SVO and Bio-Diesel are much better, cleaner options than Hybrid vehicles.
The manufacturing of Hybrids is an environmental disaster.
Do the research
Why is it an environmental disaster?
i've done the research, and i don't think you know what you are talking about?
what's your research? the cnw study?
bring your research on.
moreover, every major diesel maker is now developing diesel hybrid technology and other battery-powered vehicles.
likewise, how does diesel ever end oil dependency? based on today's science, the solution certainly isn't biodiesel.
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