Are EVs really the future?
Will everything be an EV in 2050?Without doubt right?
Wrong, at least according to a conference session at the SAE 2009 World Congress in Detroit. There officials from Toyota, Nissan, NREL, GM, Daimler, Honda and Bosch stated that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would be an important part of the total vehicle mix in 2050. In fact, the internal combustion engine will still be an important part of the mix in 2050.
Ultimately, the majority of the auto industry only sees EV viability for small, short range vehicles, not, however, as a powertrain solution for America's truck and SUV culture. For these vehicles, the bread and butter of the US industry and the monthly sales leaders, more efficient internal combustion engines and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the future.
Labels: fuel cells, plug-in hybrid vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
9:06 AM
11 Comments:
That makes sense. As long as there are EVs on the market for the people that choose them, I'm fine.
Let the market decide what cars sell, but before the Volt, Detroit was not responsive to the admittedly tiny, but growing, market of eco-conscious American consumers. Now Detroit is responding, so in a sense we've already won the most important battle: having an choice of green cars.
But let the market decide, and let the market reflect reality! Polluting cars need to reflect the cost of their pollution. Eliminate the CAFE loopholes. Regulate CO2. Provide huge investment subsidies for greener cars as an investment in a cleaner environment and energy independence. Once the market rules stop allowing polluting cars to externalize the cost of their pollution, I'm happy to let the dice roll and see what we get in 2050.
Right now, the market is tilted in favor of big polluting cars, and that is what I think most needs to change. Getting rid of Dingell, the Detroit Dinosaur from the House Commerce Committee chairmanship was a key first step. Having a trio of Californian environmentalists in key posts (Waxman, Boxer, Pelosi) at least gives us a shot. They've disappointed so far, but at least we have a shot at forcing them to do the right thing.
"They've disappointed so far, but at least we have a shot at forcing them to do the right thing."
That's kind of why I wrote my latest post - which is something you and I have been discussing in our comments.
However, I'm taking a more aggressive approach based on these findings, and not accepting these findings as our future.
I hope you check it out, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Methanol fuel cell PHEVs will be the dominant mode of light vehicle transportation by 2050, IMO. Methanol fuel cells can be more than twice as efficient as a gasoline engine. Methanol can be manufactured from urban and rural biowaste and from nuclear power plants through hydrogen production and CO2 extraction from the atmosphere.
http://newpapyrusmagazine.blogspot.com/2008/01/nuclear-synfuel-economy.html
What are the waste and by products of a methanol fuel cell supply chain?
My concern is that Methanol is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.
there have been some interesting breakthroughs in methanol production from renewable resources that have really got my attention recently.
plug-in methanol fuel cell hybrids could be a total wild card. still, as my latest post would suggest, plug-in methanol fuel cell hybrids would still use batteries.
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alcatholic -- there was a study recently that showed that methanol fuel cells have the potential to capture carbon and turn into energy. i'm sure cost-effectiveness is still an issue, but the ability to close loop this system is pretty exciting.
The combustion of methanol produces CO2 and water vapor.
If methanol is produced from fossil fuels then it will add to the greenhouse effect.
If methanol is produced from biowaste and nuclear energy then it is carbon neutral and doesn't add to global warming.
and, again, that co2 could be captured and turned into methanol. check out this story.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/03/researchers-show-direct-bacterial-production-of-methane-from-electricity-and-co2.html#more
Isn't a fuel cell (methanol or otherwise) still an EV? I'm fine with a variety of different "range-extenders" as long as electricity is the common energy currency.
Why is no talking about MDI's Car that runs on compressed air. They are reporting that the vehicle goes 110km/h and goes 200 miles on one fill at a cost of $2 per fill. Tata Motors has purchased the rights for India. It seems to me with more engineers and research far more could be done. It is my understadning that these electric batteries are heavy and are toxic for the environment. If we could store power in the way of compressed air then I think we have something to work with. Another engineer in Australia has re designed a motor to run on compressed air and is strong and efficient. He claims that is takes just 1psi to move the motor, so very little resistance. Anyway I was looking here to find out if anyone was commenting on this.
fuel cells are still EVs, but they use energy more efficiently than EVs and they are less reliant upon batteries. the other advantage is that fuel cell vehicles could use, essentially liquefied electricity, which would in and of itself be a good thing as it would help store green electricity.
We've talked about compressed air vehicles before. unfortunately, at this point in time, there isn't a whole lot to talk about. as more realistic prototypes are developed, we'll gladly talk more about such vehicles.
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