Ford: Our hybrids are better
"Not all hybrids are created equal"That's the new message that Ford wants the buyers of hybrid cars to understand. Because of Ford's lighter battery - and its 20 percent increase in power and improved chemistry at higher temperatures - the Ford Fusion hybrid is able to stay in electric mode up to speeds as high as 47 mph, unlike the 35 mph to which many other hybrids are confined.
“The Fusion Hybrid’s ability to run at a much higher speed in electric mode allows drivers to maximize fuel efficiently in many driving situations,” says Praveen Cherian, the Fusion Hybrid program team leader.
As a Camry hybrid owner, I feel a bit of Fusion hybrid envy. It's an awesome hybrid, an awesome car.
Still, while I'm impressed with the Fusion hybrid, I have serious concerns regarding Ford's hybrid plans. First, if Ford's Fusion hybrid is so awesome, why isn't Ford trying harder to produce more than 25,000 hybrids per year? Second, if you've outdone Toyota in some way, why not take on the Prius and really send a message that your hybrids are better than today's best?
Is Ford's battery technology less cost-effective? Less reliable? Is it already dead technology and, therefore, meaningless? Just too many lingering questions.
Labels: Hybrid Vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
11:19 AM
19 Comments:
I don't buy a message that staying in electric mode as long as possible is always more efficient. One needs to compare efficiency of mechanical transmission vs efficiency of the "electric chain": generator -> battery -> electric motor.
Those are big words from a car company that has made crap for the past 40 years+.
LB-
I think that's why Cherian said in "many driving conditions".
I got a good laugh out of that comment, Noz. And I guess you know, right? Aren't you still driving a Ford?
I don't believe the 35 mph limit on the Toyotas is related to the battery capacity.
The bottom line is that the chance of someone using the EV mode in an inefficient manner increases the higher you go in speed, so Toyota and Ford have arbitrarily set these limits. (In a traffic jam, forcing EV mode is pretty much always a good idea, but at higher speeds it is not usually the case.) There is nothing mechanically special about the 35 mph limit in a Toyota, and this "limit" only applied to when you can force EV mode (which is not available in the US unless you get an aftermarket kit).
Toyotas hybrids can and do drive on battery power only at much higher speeds, especially when the battery state of charge is high and/or the pressure on the accelerator is low (and it has nothing to do with whether you have or engage EV mode.)
Those are good points. These are mostly generalities, even for Ford. It's not as if Ford always stays in EV mode up to 47 miles per hour, it's just possible.
Typically this issue is based around battery longevity, not capability. Will Ford's batteries be as realiable as Toyota's, especially over time. We'll see.
It's also important to note the EPA city cycle can be very deceptive, which is what automakers try to game in their testing. It could be that in many real world driving conditions, the differences between the Camry hybrid and the Fusion aren't very wide - contrary to the higher EPA figures for the Ford.
My Prius can go up to 42 MPH on battery power with the gas engine shut down. Where is the 35 MPH coming from?
Allowing the HV battery to be used more often is nothing more than a trade-off for the battery life.
2010 Fusion hybrid battery warranty: 8 years / 100,000 miles.
2010 Prius battery warranty: 10 years / 150,000 miles.
Dahc,
Indeed I am...but not for much longer...I think it's going to detonate soon.
I could not agree more, if the battery is good and you are going downhill, Camry can also be all electric at a speed around 50 mph.
I understand that US car companies have not done a good job over the past 20-30 years. But the on going drone of how bad the US car companies are is getting thin. The attacks and endless drone of how bad they are is not constructive and it reminds me of a kicking someone while they are down.
Let's take Ford for example, the company is trying very hard to turn the corner. They have resisted federal monies. They have done an excellent job in advancing technology with the Ford Fusion, just as Toyota has done a great job with the Prius.
In case someone was suspicious, I do not work for Ford and I own both Japanese design and US design cars.
It's time to support everyone that is advancing the idea of fuel efficiency, lower emissions and reducing our consumption of foreign oil.
Yea i agree that there its time to stop beating up FORD. I havent owned one in 15 yrs however in one year I will def consider buying my new hybrid from them IF they sell great mileage 4 door with lots standard options and drive out price of about 18500.(right now their FUSION is way out of ballpark for me with 30k price with any options) ouch!
I do like Ford Escape hybrid however !! :) but even its used price is still around 21k with lots of mileage on it :(.....
Lastly TONS of younger people would LOVE to see a tiny SUV HYBRID !!! It would give great fun drive, super visibility more safety and good mileage to boot...FORD are you listening ??? ;)
I like that young person comment. Let's hope Ford is listening.
Still, I think you hit on another key, the under $20,000 hybrid. Honda is now doing it. Toyota is going to do it.
Ford better damn well do it. And so should any other automaker that wants to survive the next 5 years.
Fusion can run to 47 mph on electric power only? Yes! But only for ONE MILE. Then the battery is depleted.
why are the batteries not being recharged by the constant IDLING motor. Just put in a very large alternator. Engine idles all the time just to keep batteries charged and car runs on batteries all the time. Idling car at 800 RPM should yield very good total mpg since the gas motor is not driving the car.
well, the engine doesn't idle in many situations. it shuts off and the hybrid runs purely on EV power.
seems a bit hard to believe that an idling gas engine could create more energy that it loses by idling, but i'm not engineer.
Wow, such defensiveness. In the opinion of many car enthusiasts the Fusion Hybrid is the best hybrid on the market because it not only delivers the best fuel economy of any midsized sedan, but does so while retaining some degree of fun in the driving experience—something that cannot be said of the Camry or Prius. On top of that Consumer Reports and others have reported reliability for Ford's hybrid vehicles and for the Ford Fusion that is consistently and remarkably well above average, even besting the Toyota Camry.
Having said that, Ford's failure to produce more of any of their hybrids has much to do with a limited supply of batteries from their Japanese (Toyota-controlled) battery supplier, and the fact that Ford loses money on each hybrid they sell and they cannot afford to lose as much money as Toyota could when they first started selling hybrids.
I don't buy that car enthusiast statement. I've been a Prius and Camry hybrid driver, and I've greatly liked both cars.
Still, I don't disagree that the Fusion hybrid is a great hybrid, maybe even better than the Camry hybrid, but not the Prius.
And in terms of Consumer Reports the Prius is a Best Buy and it has been a top pick by JD Power consumer surveys for years.
In terms of batteries. Toyota made a decision years ago to manage much of its own battery supply chain. Ford could have done the same thing when it launched the Escape hybrid several years ago. So, limited supplies is an argument that I don't buy.
So, while the Fusion hybrid is a great car, until Ford can make significantly more than 25,000 of these hybrids per year, the Fusion hybrid is relatively meaningless in the hybrid world.
With 191 horsepower combined from its 2.5-liter inline-4 engine and its electric motor, the Fusion Hybrid does not shame itself on the track, either. It gets to 60 mph in 8.7 seconds (or 8.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), which feels perfectly fine around town, partly because the electric motor serves up a good chunk of torque for initial acceleration away from a standstill. The 187-hp Camry is quicker to 60 mph with an 8.3-second performance, and we suspect the Fusion Hybrid's deficit probably has to do with the extra 215 pounds the Ford carries compared to the similarly sized Camry.
Fun to drive? Where do you see any fun? It is the same ice-cream truck as Toyota Camry.
I drive a 2010 Fusion Hybrid and find the EV mode useful for many 45mph roads. Of course you can't drive forever in EV mode, but braking now and then extends the distance. The car feels very well built and drives nicely. The gauges and other displays are very helpful in guiding you for better mileage. I consistently beat the mileage ratings with fairly normal driving.
By the way - Ford did license the hybrid drive technology from Toyota and uses is in the Escape and Fusion. Nissan Altima also uses it. Which is a good thing, because it works well with both gasoline and electric only drive. So far, the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive is better than any other hybrid technology on the market. Saves gas, extremely reliable, low maintenance and relatively simple (mechanically speaking that is). . .
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