Chrysler's new EVs cast shadow on Chevy Volt
Same 40 miles as the Chevy Volt?Something stinks in Detroit, but I'm not sure what it is.
Now that Chrysler has rolled out some new or updated EVs at the Detroit Auto Show, such as the pictured 200C EV Concept, I have a few serious questions.
First, is Chrysler even going to be around in 12 months?
Second, if it's so easy for Chrysler to put its range extended EV technology into so many different kinds of vehicle types, while achieving the coveted 40 miles of electric range, why did GM have to change the original style of the Chevy Volt so much?
According to GM, much of that change was due to aerodynamics. In particular, if GM's Voltec, or range extended electric vehicle drive, was going to achieve 40 miles of electricity in the Volt, the aerodynamics of the concept needed to be changed significantly. Several months ago, GM hosted a press conference where reporters went through GM's wind tunnel, Volt design center and 3D imaging lab and, over and over, GM iterated the importance of aerodynamics.
Yet, if aerodynamics are so pertinent to the Volt, why do they seem so much less pertinent to Chrysler's vehicles? Is it just me, or is something just not jiving?
Perhaps, Chrysler is simply willing to use bigger battery packs to resolve this difference. That would, however, mean higher prices - even much higher prices. If true, is that an effective and realistic approach to EV economies of scale? Is it just greenwashing PR?
Or, is Chrysler's technology simply better than the Voltecs powering the Volt?
Labels: Chevy Volt electric vehicle concept, chrysler, plug-in hybrid vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:28 AM
4 Comments:
The only thing GM knows how to do well these days is lie!
If they wanted an aerodynamic car, they had one in the EV1. Drag it back out and use it.
If they wanted batteries, they had them in the form of Ovshinky NiMH that are virtually indestructable. Can't use NiMH because of the Chevron patent? Use the Panasonic PEVE lead acid battery formerly in the EV1. 600 pounds of lead in a Volt would take it a long way. Remember, GM has to use 400 pounds of Lithium to go the 40 miles, because they only use 50% of the pack's capacity. Lithium cannot tolerate abuse. Roughly 300 pounds of NiMH would have given you the 40 mile range in the Volt....
All GM does is lie.
Go check out BYD's offerings at the show. Their product is real with a 62 mile EV range...
i'm certainly not saying that gm is lying, but are they over-exaggerating their aerodynamic case? or, is chrysler the one that is really talking nonsense?
still, the EV1 is obviously very aerodynamic, but not for 4, or even 5. in my opinion the sales potential of the Volt is far superior to the that of the EV1. so you could never replace the volt with the EV1.
for a larger vehicle, especially a car, i don't think that NiMH is possible, at least not for a range extended vehicle. if you're talking about a 100 mile EV, then yes, GM had the batteries.
toyota has the batteries. why doesn't toyota add more nimh batteries to the prius and make it a plug-in? they'd say its not cost-effective.
yet, back to the battery for a sec.
while the volt only achieves 40 miles of grid electricity, it still always runs on electricity. that means if you drive 400 miles, it is using the battery the entire time, not just for the first 40 miles.
when it runs out of grid electricity, the volt uses its engine to generate electricity, which is very different than a plug-in Prius, for instance.
NiMH has not been proven for that application. over the lifetime of the vehicle many experts believe that NiMH wasn't reliable.
lead acid doesn't make sense for plug-in hybrids or range extended vehicles.
i talked to a lead acid converter at hybrid fest and he admitted that lead would have to be changed every year or two depending upon on use.
that's not feasible in terms of economies of scale.
i've been following BYD for several years now. they were at the Detroit show last year.
BYD has a lot to prove, in my opinion. when they can make 2000 phevs per month, i might start believing, until then...
Hey, happy new year, Dahc!
GM uses 50% of their batteries and keeps them between 80% - 30% charge to extend their life.
If Chrysler wanted to fudge with the numbers those would be were I would start. Top off the batteries and run them dry each time, and voila! 40 miles! (you know, hypothetically)
Thanks. Happy New Year, Alcatholic.
I've also thought that a possibility.
Yet, even keeping the batteries in GM's sweet spot, GM still largely assumed that each Volt would require one battery replacement during its warranty. Though they figured they could resolve much of that by the 2nd gen.
However, last I heard, battery tests were proving better than expected and far less replacements might be required.
So, Chrsyler could be assuming a best case scenario. Or, perhaps Chrsyler's lithium chemistry is better than GM's.
Or, maybe Chrysler isn't serious about these vehicles, so their cost and real world viability aren't relevant. Just creating the perception that you're prepared for the game is all that matters for now.
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