Poll - Most Americans support an automaker bailout
At least Ford pickup owners doI was just given the poll results from a Peter D. Hart Research Associates, Inc. survey that indicates the majority of Americans support a bailout.
First, it must be acknowledged that the Peter D. Hart group is a pro-Democrat group. Second, I was looking through the data, and there are some interesting things to note.
For instance, the number one vehicle type owned by the group interviewed was a pickup. That is, unless you bulk all SUVs into one segment. Then SUVs represented the most owned vehicle.
The top two owned brands were Ford and Chevy. And, almost no one owned a hybrid vehicle. Politically, the largest group defined themselves as middle class Democrats.
I'm exaggerating a bit here, but this study seems to indicate that middle class Democrats whom buy American-made trucks and SUVs largely support an automaker bailout. Is that surprising?
I'm exaggerating a bit here, but this study seems to indicate that middle class Democrats whom buy American-made trucks and SUVs largely support an automaker bailout. Is that surprising?
Labels: bailout
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:26 AM
20 Comments:
No bail outs! Let the automakers cut salaries and wages across the board. Cut costs dramatically.
Then we can talk about govt back loans. But not until management and labor unions step up and cut costs. If not, let them go out of business...
Most Americans can't find their ass with both hands...so what they think really has no relevance frankly.
Americans have become so gullible and have such little ability to think for themselves these days. 50% of them can't even identify their own fking country on a map for crying out loud!!!!
knipfty - So, I'm guessing you're not a middle class Democrat that owns an American-made truck or SUV?
Labor Unions have made a lot of cuts that will dramatically go into effect around 2010. So, other than somehow addressing legacy costs, i don't think a lot more can be done at the union level.
At the executive level, how much money could you save? I'm not saying it's not a good idea, but could you even save 1/2 a billion?
Without bankruptcy, I don't think you could do much more cost-saving.
Yet, if they go into bankruptcy, will consumers ever consider buying new vehicles from these automakers once they emerge from bankruptcy?
There is no perfect solution. It's figuring out the most productive, lesser of evils. To me, it seems it's worth it to try to construct a tough bailout package that avoids bankruptcy, but achieves similar results.
Of course, that's expecting a lot of Congress, which is probably not a good thing.
What a biased study, typical Democratic BS.
It's funny, upper class Democrats buying gas guzzlers. Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? It's like soccer moms going to the anti-war rally in their Chevy Suburban with a no blood for oil bumper sticker.
noz, you're right, americans are stupid, especially wealthy democrats!
You're assuming Dems and Reps are different. They are not...they are the same shit.
this is a new congress - which isn't even in session yet - so i'll give them a little time before passing judgment, but i don't have high hopes.
still, i totally agree with noz, both parties have sucked far too long, and too many of the same jokers are still in congress.
We need someone like Ron Paul or Nader....fat chance though. Not in our lifetimes.
There are a lot of expectations, perhaps even unrealistic, on the new administration and the new Congress. If great change isn't achieved, I think you could see an alternative candidate seize the public's attention.
Still, I hope that doesn't happen because that would require four more years of failure.
If great change isn't achieved, I think voters should focus on Congress, particularly Congressional incumbents of both parties. Congress is where I'd like to see a total house cleaning.
I will update my post if I am wrong or complete, but I believe this a push-poll designed to get a desired response.
Sample size is reasonable, but Question #5 appears to be a prime to shift mean responses to the pro-bailout position.
Aren't all polls these days? And I say that sarcastically, but after following the polls during the Presidential election I started to feel as if polls had become, largely, worthless.
dahc,
About polls during the election, they were spot on as a whole if you averaged them. Literally spot on.
Check out this website that took all state level polls, NOT national polls which are meaningless:
election.princeton.edu
You'll see the statistical average of those polls were spot on. The key, and what I did this campaign, is to ignore individual polls, and totally ignore the national polls. Just throw each state level poll into the pot and see how that moves things overall.
So, I'll agree that you need to watch out for and completely disregard push polls. In fact, don't take any single poll at face value. Only trust compilations of polls that are not push polls.
To my ignorance, i was only following the national polls. I didn't pay any attention to the states. I never had any doubt about what the results were going to be.
Interesting link - thanks.
FiveThirtyEight.com was also spot on during the elections. He doesn't hide that he is a democrat but he doesn't let it get in the way of his projections. He weights all the polls on accuracy and then averages them.
Just read an article by Thomas Friedman and thought you would like this line:
I would add other conditions: Any car company that gets taxpayer money must demonstrate a plan for transforming every vehicle in its fleet to a hybrid-electric engine with flex-fuel capability, so its entire fleet can also run on next generation cellulosic ethanol.
It looks like the folks in DC are hell-bent to give the stimulus package another try seeing as the first one didn't have any real effect. This time it's the car industry.
While I question the sanity of blowing cash around and running the national debt up even further; it seems inevitable - so this time let's target unemployment, create AMERICAN jobs and pump up the economy all at one time.
Consider the following:
Manufacturing costs of motor vehicles are 65% labor (ie: W-2 income), that's not all direct but due to suppliers. GM alone has over 1300 suppliers. (That's a lot of jobs!)
1 in 10 Americans makes all or part of their income due to the automobile industry.
Money turns over 5 times in a year.
Thus a vehicle with a manufacturing cost of 20K produces 13,500 in W-2 income which in turn becomes a total of 65K in 12 months due to the 5 turnovers.
(This isn't magic, it's simply how the economy works.)
Our domestic car makers are saddled with legacy costs, most of which will reduce dramatically in 2010 due to contract changes. They need to survive to get there.
Here's the solution
Instead of either shipping cases of cash off to car makers; or sending us all another check:
Send out a voucher for say $1,000 good on a motor vehicle for the percentage of the vehicle that's domestic. (Civic = 70% Ford Explorer=80%)
Let those not interested in a new car sell or give away their vouchers (Ebay would be loaded with them in no time flat) and those that are so inclined can use as many as they can get their hands on up to the full MSRP of the vehicle.
This would bail out the car industry without giving them a dime directly
Further it would reduce the overall age of the nations cars which would in turn;
increase overall fuel economy
decrease pollution
Strengthen the dollar!
Since vehicles with a higher domestic content would be moving better this would reduce our imports, strengthening our dollar which would in turn further reduce what we pay for anything imported ...like gas!
Jobs
Instead of simply saving some jobs, this would cause such a run that it would create some.
Pays for itself!
Since money turns over 5 times, and the vouchers are only good for the domestic content of the vehicle, every dime would be spent in the United States creating taxable income.
What is the income tax on 65,000 anyway?
(Remember? 20K manufacturing cost = $13,500 W-2 income x 5 = $65,000)
http://authentic-connecticut-republican.blogspot.com/2008/11/another-stimulus-package.html
I'm sure you'll agree that this makes more sense than simply sending out checks; many of which will be used to buy new flat screen TV's usually made in Malaysia or some such place.
Re: A.C.R.'s post, it's striking how protectionism predictably rears its head during downturn after downturn.
It does not work, does not pay for itself, increases poverty, and reduces the chances of a recovery.
You'll all love this idea. Give the bailout loans to Honda, Toyota and Nissan and tell them they have to buy GM, Ford and Chrysler with the loan money. They have to replace all of the upper management people. They have to re-negotiate all of the trade-union agreements, including those in the auto dealerships, they have to re-negotiate all of the parts suppliers agreements and they can't lay off any of the work force builidng the cars and the car parts. Only problem is that Toyota, Honda and Nissan would just as soon see the little big three perish so somehow there has to be a bigger incentive than just a loan.
Well you can't really force any automaker to buy the Big 3. I would think bankruptcy is the closest thing to your suggestion. Bankruptcy and massive credits for hybrid cars, etc.
zendude-
In my bailout in 3 easy steps plan, massive hybridization credits was one of my solutions, so I'm kind of in line with friedman.
however, i wonder if its very realistic to say everything must be a hybrid - at least a battery-powered hybrid. while i would love to see it happen, i don't think it's even close to possible any time soon because of battery supply constraints.
that was why i added CNG to my plan.
it's not that i'm a big fan of CNG, it's just something that can be done today. we could let the big 3 convert everything to CNG just to get off foreign oil. as we do this also require a certain percent of CNG vehicles be hybrids and PHEVs
this gives the big 3 something they can do today as they retool for tomorrow, which could help save more jobs and the savings from ending foreign oil dependency might even fund the the bailout, the conversion to CNG, and much of the switch to electrification.
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