2 battery packs for every Volt
Battery replacements in the warrantyThus far, whenever GM discusses the ongoing lithium ion battery tests for the Chevy Volt, it's all sunshine. Yet, GM is also assuming that many Volts will need to have their lithium battery packs replaced while under warranty. But, no worries, lithium costs will quickly come down, at least that's GM's position, but is GM assuming too much, or demonstrating bold leadership?
Finish: 2 battery packs for every Volt
Labels: a123 systems, Chevy Volt electric vehicle concept, GM, Hybrid Vehicles, lithium battery
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:03 AM
15 Comments:
FULL STORY
Thus far, whenever GM discusses the ongoing lithium ion battery tests for the Chevy Volt, it's all sunshine. Everything regarding the battery tests is perfect. Yet, GM is already anticipating that the Volt's 10 year warranty will also include a battery change, which is probably why GM has been putting forth the idea of battery leases almost since the debut of the Volt.
To counter the negative connotations of such a possibility, GM has been quick to postulate that the costs of lithium technology will quickly go down because of economies of scale and a better lithium than nickel supply.
Yet, Hybridcarblog has already blogged on a report that suggests that the world's lithium supplies could dry up rather fast. Back in April I discussed this possibility with A123Systems CEO and President, David Vieau. Vieau told me that A123's suppliers had assured the company that enough lithium existed to convert America's fleet of automobiles to battery-powered vehicles. However, he did admit that most of the world's lithium mines exist in just a few places in the world - some with strong socialist undercurrents.
Perhaps the Volt and its lithium technology will run the course that some GM execs have suggested, but a number of assumptions are being made - assumptions predicated on perfect world scenarios. Unfortunately, as a good friend of mine used to regularly remind me, to assume too much is to make an as ass of u and me.
Obviously, new technologies always require a certain amount of assumptions, or educated guesses. Equally as obvious, GM is no position to discuss any negative possibilities regarding the Volt - it has become GM's "most valuable brand" and the lynch pin to loan negotiations with the government.
Nonetheless, just a few short years ago, GM was willing to bet the farm on SUVS and trucks for the near term - despite 9/11 and Katrina - not just dismissing hybrid cars, but small cars altogether. Today proves the futility of that bad assumption.
Thus, is GM beginning to assume a bit too much about the speed of the Volt's success, or is GM just boldly heading into the future?
GM couldn't find their rectum with both bands and a flashlight!
Why not resume production of the EV1? Why not offer the EV1 with PbA OR NiMH batteries, depending on customer choice? The PbA Panasonic batteries used in the EV1 could get over 100 miles range. Works for me.
Why not resume production of the Electric S10? How much could that vehicle cost since they must have all the dies and tools to put it back on the production line?
You are right though, it is nothing but big, heavy, overpowered gas guzzling vehicles. Sigh. I do not think the Volt can get here soon enough...YET, how long would it take to resume EV1 production? I would personally LOVE to have an EV1 as a solid commuter and weekend run around car...
Well, I don't know if GM can afford to do anything today. The financial restructuring they've been going through doesn't go into full effect until after the Volt launches. Plus they need a few years to both obtain government help and figure out a way to cost-effectively meet the new CAFE standards.
What's scary is that at least GM has some kind of plan, but one that means nothing for at least a few more years. Yet, GM's plans are far ahead of Chrysler or Ford.
GM's share of the bailout is $17 billion, if divided 3 ways. considering how much they are losing in North America every quarter, is the Volt even a possibility without this massive amount of funding?
Just read in interesting story regarding the Volt on AutoWeek by Gary Witzenburg who from 1991-2000, was a vehicle test and development manager for the dedicated team that in 1994 became GM's Advanced Technology Vehicles (ATV) Division. His take on the Chevy Volt is pretty interesting and worth a look.
Jabroni - you might like his comments regarding the EV1.
AutoWeek
on Chevy Volt
Jabroni,
The problem is that the EV1 is limited in use. Not everyone can use a two seat vehicle all the time...and plus, marketing-wise...it would be next to impossible to market a car like an EV1 with bunch of public doofuses who are still high in the SUV drug.
Think about it.
i think you could market the EV1 today, but it isn't the home run that the Volt could be.
still,even the Volt would have been a failure in the 90's simply because of gas prices. it took 9/11, katrina, iraq and, most importantly $3.00+ gas, to open the average American's eyes to the need for electrification.
yet, i wonder, how much does EV and hybrid hype die if gas drops below $3.00 for a few months? i really worry that the average american consumer has no memory, nor vision.
if the government is going to bail out the US auto industry, then obtain that money from a gas tax. that keeps automakers and consumers focused on fuel economy and vehicles like the Volt.
otherwise, if gas prices recede for a few years, as many energy analysts are expecting - the calm before the storm - i really worry that consumers will lose interest in fuel economy quite quickly.
People aren't aware of what's going on. They are merely reacting to a negative stimulus...i.e. hard times.
While I live here and will be affected by negative economic developments, I will go out on a limb and say people in the US need to suffer for a while..like the rest of the world. Pay for the real price of life...and understand how precious and pricey it is.
I don't know who said it once on TV but I recall the words....
...Americans are too dumb to have good leadership...they don't deserve to have decent people in office because it is a direct reflection of them....
I honestly couldn't agree more. The sad part is the fallout...people who realize, care, and understand, like us, get shafted too.
Solution? Leave the country and live somewhere else with a better quality of life.
that quote is pretty much true, but its politicians and their rich power brokers that have created this american apathy of everything. while i don't excuse this apathy, i want to help convert this apathy into revolution.
Noz,
If you hate America and Americans so much; why don't you just go find some where better and live there. You ought to fit in real well in China. I'm sure they would love to have you.
Dahc -
I read the Auto Week article but I do not agree with the author. All you have to do is watch the ads from Chevrolet promoting the EV1 to realize that they sabotaged the vehicle from the very beginning. All of the EV1 ads were dark, ominous and just plain strange.
If 40 miles EV range is good for most people, then a 140 to 160 mile EV1 with NiMH batteries should be good for everyone!
Roger Smith was fired shortly after leading GM in the direction of electric vehicles. GM Board members did not agree with his leaqdership, obviously.
As soon as CARB relented and allowed automakers to substitute hydrogen fool cells for the ZEV mandate, then the EV's were pulled. the very next day. Then GM next sold the patent for NiMH batteries to Texaco, who was swallowed by Chevron to finally seal the deal. This is not conspiracy theory but a factual matter of public record.
Well, I have ranted long enough. I really do hope that GM gets it right and delivers the Volt, because I will buy at least ONE! :)
Dahc -
I read the Auto Week article but I do not agree with the author. All you have to do is watch the ads from Chevrolet promoting the EV1 to realize that they sabotaged the vehicle from the very beginning. All of the EV1 ads were dark, ominous and just plain strange.
If 40 miles EV range is good for most people, then a 140 to 160 mile EV1 with NiMH batteries should be good for everyone!
Roger Smith was fired shortly after leading GM in the direction of electric vehicles. GM Board members did not agree with his leaqdership, obviously.
As soon as CARB relented and allowed automakers to substitute hydrogen fool cells for the ZEV mandate, then the EV's were pulled. the very next day. Then GM next sold the patent for NiMH batteries to Texaco, who was swallowed by Chevron to finally seal the deal. This is not conspiracy theory but a factual matter of public record.
Well, I have ranted long enough. I really do hope that GM gets it right and delivers the Volt, because I will buy at least ONE! :)
Anonymous said...
Noz,
If you hate America and Americans so much; why don't you just go find some where better and live there. You ought to fit in real well in China. I'm sure they would love to have you.
4:30 PM
I was waiting for a chicken little idiot like you to show up and say something like this. It's the standard line people like yourself, who don't want to hear any criticism and don't want to feel any pain, use against people who actually and ironically care more about improving this country than you ever have.
It's people with your kind of response and ideology who have driven this country into the ground and not much is left...thanks to you.
Your comment about China...your ignorance shows. If you knew anything about the rest of the world and other countries, you'd know there are plenty of countries whose citizens live better, live healthier, have more say in their government than you could ever dream of.
If you actually knew that, you'd not have made yourself look so stupid by saying such an ignorant comment.
Take a breather and stop chanting America, American for a second and look around. Maybe you'll figure it out...eventually.
jabroni-
i still say the ev1 failed because it wasn't cost effective with gas prices at that time.
still, i didn't suggest you read it to convert you, just that i thought you would find it interesting considering your passion for the EV1.
i agree that many at GM, probably most, had no interest whatsoever in the EV1. in the 90's GM was making as much as $10,000 in profit per SUV sale. why build more expensive cars with limited, if any, profit margins?
not unless you're thinking about the future and $4.00 gas, which all of the Big 3 refused to accept as a possibility any time soon.
i'm still not sure i buy into the battery conspiracy, however. what you say is a matter of fact, but its a fact that hasn't stopped toyota whom pays a licensing fee to use this technology, just as toyota charges Ford and Nissan to use some of its patented hybrid technology. this is just typical patent law driven business.
and if one of GM's battery suppliers, or Toyota's, develops a new lithium-ion chemistry that is perfect for EVs, they will also charge others to use their patented technology.
unfortunately, that's not a conspiracy, it's reality. in a lot of ways its a sad reality, but its no different that patents on pharmaceuticals, for example, that keep drug prices high at the expense of people's lives.
Certainly a lot of rosy pipe dreams that GM is pushing. But, like a lot of big projects the costs will likely balloon out of control resulting in the huge price tag they are asking for.
GM simply does not get it, if they are hinging their future on this vehicle they are also shooting themselves in the foot by pricing out of most Americans wallets. First they wanted $40k and now dropped it to $30k for this thing. By my reckoning, most consumers will probably give it a cursory look and then head off to Toyota and buy the $22k Prius instead. Toyota doesn't really have much to fear. Besides, the potential customers probably have more to worry about (like saving their home mortgage!) than buying a new car, so they will need a lot of convincing.
GM marketeers must already know that to make an impact they need to tackle the competition headon perhaps target the initial price at $20k and hope that potential consumers will accept the risk of purchasing newer technology from and company with an uncertain future.
Doughboy-
i largely agree with your points. still, i think the Volt is vitally important, but not at the expense of a direct and immediate prius competitor.
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