Edmunds questions hybrid value
The best hybrid value over timeUsing "projected model-specific average vehicle ownership costs, consisting of depreciation, financing, taxes, fees, insurance premiums, fuel costs, maintenance and repairs," Edmunds.com has determined that ultra-compact and compact cars are a better value over time than hybrid vehicles, and all other vehicles, at least for the first five years.
Honestly, the study seems pretty stupid. Compact and subcompact cars cost less up front, come with less options, and usually are less equipped with the latest gadgetry. Since they cost less, insurance is cheaper, as is licensing, taxes and financing. Also, because they have less technical gadgetry they have cheaper maintenance and repairs.
I know this is hard to believe, but if a car costs less, its usually cheaper to own. Brilliant!
--> Check out Consumer Reports Top Fuel Economy Picks for the Money
Labels: Hybrid Vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
9:04 AM
19 Comments:
Still, your commute and driving conditions would have a huge impact on this study, as far as hybrids, and like most studies, I'm sure this study is skewed towards highway fuel economy, for example.
Likewise, was insurance compared across all insurance companies, for example, since some offer discounts for hybrids?
Also, depreciation costs?
Today, after 5 years, a Prius isn't depreciating all that much.
More important, if you're buying a hybrid to save money on gas, the first five years are the least cost-effective, since it takes about 3 to 5 years to recover the typical hybrid premium. The fuel savings after 5 years are gravy. In a place like LA that can be thousands of dollars per year.
This is NOT STUPID. This is the truth. If you buy a hybrid NOW to drive for five years, you are likely to lose some money. However, if you continue to drive it 3-4 more years, considering rising fuel prices and the legendary reliability of Toyota vehicles, you'd save something.
PS: If you check the figures, you will see that most price comes from vehicle depreciation. E.g. the Camry bought for 30,000 (with taxes) driven 10 years, 0.1-0.15$ gas per mile, 0.05$ in service and potential repairs doesn't go beyond 0.5$ per mile. Then compare it with 0.63$ per mile in the study. It is all depreciation losses.
In my zip code, a used 2007 prius with 10,000 miles and in 'good' condition, not 'excellent' is worth $22,195 for a private sale, and i didn't add any extra options. a 2005, with 50,000 miles, no extra options, was worth $19,300.
I'll take that kind of depreciation.
Well, it all depends. There is no good date now. Again, you area with 3,000$ markup is not a good benchmark.
my old toyota dealership is actually marking up the prius by $5000 and adding dealer add-ons.
my new toyota dealer, also in socal, isn't adding any markups, or any dealer add-ons to either the prius or the camry hybrid.
of course, it might take a few months to obtain a prius and a few weeks for a camry hybrid, and you have no selection.
Either it is a long line or a price markup it all drives up the price :-) According to my calculation, if the price drops from 22 to 8 in 5 years as it happens to most Japanese vehicles, your maintenance costs are one thousand a year than you truly have 0.5$ per mile as in Edmunds review.
i'd love to find a 5 year old prius for only $8,000. kbb puts a 2004 with 60,000 miles in good condition at $16,800.
that's too much for me. at $8000, however, i'd convert it to a plug-in hybrid. even with a $10,000 hymotion conversion kit, it would still be a bargain.
It is not exactly five years, but Ok, let it be 12,000$ for five years, 1,000$ each year maintenance/repairs (perhaps) exaggeration. 15,000 (each year) * 5 = 75,000 miles, each costing you 13 center per mile + 10 cents gas prices + 6 center per mile in repairs. Total 20 cents per mile. Looks like Edmunds should learn more math. Even with 10,000 miles driven each year. It is less 30 center per mile.
Also, perhaps buying a used hybrid is like buying real estate, its all local.
Since demand is so high around me, the prices are staying higher than in areas where the prius, and hybrid synergy technology, isn't as effective.
still, as plug-in hybrid conversion technology becomes more cost-effective, it isn't hard to imagine resale value on Prii staying high for such conversions.
Uuups, I messed up my own math :-)
10 + 13 + 6 ain't 20, it is 30.
Yet, it still almost twice as cheap as suggested by Edmunds. Even with only 10 thousand per year, still more than 10 center per mile cheaper :-)
PS: I've heard that electricity is going to go up significantly. Perhaps, conversion to a plug-in doesn't make sense now.
lb-
i've heard that electricity could shoot up significantly in the next couple of years. still, i'm interested in a plug-in hybrid due to solar power, which i would use to power my plug-in.
nonetheless, that's an interesting point for PHEVs in general. but, as long as u can charge from the grid during non-peak hours, costs should still make the conversion worth while. still, if were only going to connect to the grid i might not be as bullish, especially here in CA, where blackouts and brownouts are pretty common during the summer.
Well electricity costs would have to approach increasing 4X before the efficiency of the electric motor in a series plug-in hybrid is neutralized relative to an IC powered car. It's been said a million times on this blog and others. Their are at least 5 completely different ways we power our national electric grid right now. And if the competition between those existing methods, plus other emerging ones, isn't going to result in a leveling off the recent energy price increases, I'm afraid nothing will. But I really do believe good old competition and American capitalism are going to prevail. Otherwise, what is the alternative?
energyindependence-
well, the alternative isn't pretty. i largely agree with you, but i am a little worried that partisanship could create inaction in congress at a time when we can't move fast enough.
But I really do believe good old competition and American capitalism are going to prevail.
Uhu... and I don't. Competition... it's funny. You have Pepco and virtually nothing else.
It's been said a million times on this blog and others.
Everybody says, but nobody does the math :-) So, I don't believe this everybody.
Well, I'm still a pragmatic optimist with a number of decades under my belt. I'm in TX where electricity rates have been skyrocketing as the price of natural gas rises along with that of oil and coal. But what I find interesting is the price of electricity supplied by 100% renewable sources (wind here in TX) has actually dropped in the last six months! In fact we are less than 2 cent's away from the lowest available electricity rate. In other words, true grid parity for 100% renewable is imminent. Isn't it ironic, right here in the heart of America's fossil fuel driven energy industry, alternative energy is about to hit grid parity!
LB-
A lot of math on plug-in hybrids has been detailed by Argonne labs, as well as a number of utility companies. Now, yes, some of the people writing these reports probably have a vested interested.
Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids are a great way to balance electric grid load, for example. This, however, brings up the need for distributed energy, V2G technologies, etc.
Still, considering the poor condition of our electric grid - we have to make updates. V2G, a more distributable grid, these things would make the grid more robust and better able to manage to today's energy production, and they would enable many to use excess night-time grid capacity.
There will be some devils in the details, but a lot of math has been done indicating that there is, minimally, serious potential with plug-in hybrids.
Besides, we need to think more comprehensively about our energy policy and I believe, plug-ins can be an important part of that discussion and plan.
LB-
A lot of math on plug-in hybrids has been detailed by Argonne labs, as well as a number of utility companies. Now, yes, some of the people writing these reports probably have a vested interested.
Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids are a great way to balance electric grid load, for example. This, however, brings up the need for distributed energy, V2G technologies, etc.
Still, considering the poor condition of our electric grid - we have to make updates. V2G, a more distributable grid, these things would make the grid more robust and better able to manage to today's energy production, and they would enable many to use excess night-time grid capacity.
There will be some devils in the details, but a lot of math has been done indicating that there is, minimally, serious potential with plug-in hybrids.
Besides, we need to think more comprehensively about our energy policy and I believe, plug-ins can be an important part of that discussion and plan.
In the LA Times yesterday where I read the same Edmunds.com findings they place the Consumer Reports 10 most economical car findings and the Prius ranks number two. I don't know how exactly they made their findings...but I know a lot of weight is put in to what Consumer Rports says. In regards to something said the other day about the avg commute being 30 miles a day. While that is true, roughly 20,000 people (including my father) make the trip from the Antelope Valley in to LA. That is 120+ miles a day round trip! So I think where economical makes sense, is what makes sense for you. For a lot of people I'm sure that buying a car that is used that gets decent mileage is the most economical. Not everyone wants used though...
brian-
From my recollection, Consumer Reports also looked at consumer satisfaction, car safety, comfort and other non-cost factors. The Edmunds report tried to focus purely on costs.
CR picked the best fuel efficient car for the money, while Edmunds picked the cheapest car for the money.
Still, according to LB's math on the subject, the Edmunds study might be off in some of their data, such as the depreciation of vehicles like the Prius. According to the latest KBB data, after 5 years, a Prius in Southern Califonia isn't losing much value at all.
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