Camry hybrid: Best hybrid for the money?
Payback in just 18 months?According to Edmunds, the Toyota Camry hybrid recovers its costs compared to the the base 4 cylinder Camry in just 18 months. The Chevy Malibu hybrid was second at 2.7 years, although it won't save as much money over the long run as other hybrids. Thus, the Toyota Prius at 3.5 years will save more money than the Malibu hybrid if you keep the vehicle for at least 5 years. The Honda Civic hybrid takes 4.8 years to recover its hybrid costs.
Because of large price increases in the last year, the Ford Escape hybrid, now priced more than $2,300 more than last year, and the Toyota Highlander hybrid, now up $5,482 over last year, take 7.3 years and 12 years respectively to recover their hybrid costs. Ouch!
Obviously, some hybrid vehicles are a great hedge against high gas prices, but the Toyota Camry hybrid is beginning to look like a steal.
Labels: chevy malibu hybrid, Ford Escape hybrid, Highlander hybrid, honda civic hybrid, Hybrid Vehicles, toyota camry hybrid, toyota prius
posted by Dahcredyns at
7:13 AM
28 Comments:
Does the Camry hybrid hold its value as well as the Prius?
I still think one of the best moves I can make until the Volt comes out would be to purchase a Prius and then have a plug in kit installed. Looks like my wife might have a new job with a 4 mile round trip commute and so a cheap lead acid Prius conversion would work perfectly!
I wonder why no one is performing after market Camry hybrid plug in conversions?
Hi,
what is the exact link to the article on Edmunds.com? I couldn't find it. According to my estimates, if you drive about 10-15 thousand miles you save on gas about 500-1000 dollars. This savings, however, don't include potential service cost (Hybrids could be more expensive). Thus, I cannot understand how the difference in price can be recovered in 18 months.
Here's the link.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/05/hybrids-paying-off-more-quickl.html
I don't think the Camry hybrid has been around long enough to determine if it holds its value as well.
In terms of plug-in conversions, I think they will be eventually offered because of the number of Camry hybrid sales. I know someone has discussed the possibility - hybrids-plus.com, if I recall correctly.I think it hasn't been a focus because the integration is probably not as neat as in the Prius because of the trunk v hatchback.
A potential client of mine is looking for a used Prius that suffered some sort of battery problem because of a crash, etc so he can convert into a pure lithium plug-in hybrid.
The hybrid aftermarket is going to be very interesting in a couple of more years.
Thank you for the link. I quote: "But based on 15,000-mile-per-year driving, the Camry Hybrid saves $573, assuming gasoline priced at $3.61 per gallon. At that rate, owners can recoup their hybrid investment in just 18 months."
OMG, the authors of this data obviously have HUGE problems with math.
Let met make myself clear. First of all, they calculate savings incorrectly. Assuming a rather optimistic fuel efficiency of 25mg for conventional Camry and realistic 35 mpg for Hybrid Camry, we get that HC saves about 29% of the fuel costs. Further, conventional Camry consumes 40 gallons of fuel per thousand miles or 600 gallons per 15 thousand miles. That gives us 600 * 3.61 2166$ in fuel costs of which 29% or 628 can be saved. Now, the difference is about 5 thousand dollars and dividing it by 628 we get that it still takes a long run to recoup fuel costs. In other words, the price of gas is not as huge now :-)
PS: but authors (research) or whoever should get a huge slap for their math.
Also, the price increase numbers I referenced, such as the price increase on the Escape hybrid this year compared to last year came from CNBC.
I didn't verify the numbers on the Camry hybrid. I don't really take any of these 'studies' too seriously because I don't always agree with their methodology.
For example, I drive at least 90 percent of the time in tough congestion and stop-and-go traffic. Compared to a conventional 4 cyl Camry, my payback time is far sooner because of these conditions.
Ultimately, if you live in an urban environment, such as LA where I live, many hybrids are a good deal and a few hybrids are a great deal. For those that don't drive in such conditions, the cost-benefits aren't quite as favorable.
"Ultimately, if you live in an urban environment, such as LA where I live, many hybrids are a good deal and a few hybrids are a great deal. For those that don't drive in such conditions, the cost-benefits aren't quite as favorable."
They are extremely good for the city, because people don't inhale additional exhausts while cars are driving slowly :-) So, city dwellers get real benefits while hybrid drivers get mostly moral satisfaction :-) Perhaps, that will change in a couple of years if the price will hit 5-6 dollars mark.
Also, I am not sure that savings in the city are much higher than on the highway, because hybrids are also less efficient in the city (despite all EPA estimations and rumors). Especially when you drive with AC on.
I'll bet in a few years you'll have a pot-pourri of companies offering Li-I conversions for Pruis and Civic hybrids alike...if not directly from the manufacturers but at least from reputable companies back by them.
Man...I am going to laugh at these SUV drivers...they are stuck with one large paperweight...and watch...they are going to want government assistance because they are getting financially hurt.
Stupidity for these people should be painful.
ITMAN:
There's more to driving a hybrid than just dollar savings...that's one thing you need to understand about wanting to drive a hybrid.
People always worry about resale value and long-term value of their purchases...but when it comes to hybrids, they get their panties in a knot because they can't instantly see the benefits? Is everything panic and fear driven these days?
We wet our pants about spending $10 Billion on a rail and public transport system that would solve most of our urban congestion problems and suburbanite stupidity problems OR $100 MILLION to solve our pathetic schools in this country YET we don't even give a flying rat's ass that we just spent $1 TRILLION in the last 5 years on a deliberate war?
Do you see what ludicrous things we worry about?
"There's more to driving a hybrid than just dollar savings...that's one thing you need to understand about wanting to drive a hybrid"
Nozferatu, I would remind you that in this post we discuss the very economic aspects of driving a hybrid putting aside moral, political and other aspects. I know some people get very disappointed after they buy they hybrid and understand that it is not as efficient as advertised by some papers who have problems with either math or honesty. These customers are lost almost forever for producer of hybrid cars. Just think about it.
PS: Most SUV drivers don't need their gas guzzlers, I agree on that, but they have nice and cheap alternatives. E.g. many of them can drive a Corolla that is very efficient even in rather congested areas. In that, the difference in price covers at least half of a decade of gas savings.
That is why it is important that they understand clearly what benefits they get when they buy a hybrid.
I don't know if hybrids are necessarily the answer. After all, it takes electricity and to get electricity we are burning more coal than ever. I will wait for a hydrogen powered car.
The crazy thing is that so many people are buying them for their fuel efficiency that Jeep is now offering $2.99 gas for the next 3 years! One Portland Jeep dealer is even offering $0.99 per gallon!!!! I cannot believe it. It's not the environmental aspect that is getting people to buy, it is MONEY!
LB-
I'd say there is a huge difference in savings between city and highway, at least for Hybrid Synergy Drive hybrids. It's not so much that a hybrid performs drastically better in the city than on the highway, it's that most conventional vehicles perform far worse in the city than on the highway. Thus, a Camry hybrid does far better in the city compared to regular Camry than if compared on the highway. And this difference is even far greater for the Prius.
Some conventional cars can perform quite well on the highway, such as the Cobalt. However, there is a big drop in the Cobalt's city performance. Also, what the EPA defines as city driving is far different that actual city driving, especially in large, congested cities.
Marty-
Today's hybrids create their own electricity so coal has nothing to do with today's hybrids.
Today's hybrids are obviously not the answer, but tomorrow's hybrids have incredible potential.
In terms of hydrogen, most hydrogen vehicles are fuel cell HYBRID vehicles. So, if you believe in hydrogen then you might actually still be talking about hybrid vehicles.
Dac, to tell you the truth I don't believe that there are many extremely congested cities yet. This is at least my experience with Washington, DC Metropolitan area and partly with New York. Perhaps, this is due to the existence of public transportation and high parking/driving costs (paid roads). For example, only few people would drive on Manhattan, because it is costly. If they drive in suburbs they get much better mileage.
That is why, I think that for the 90+ percent of US drivers the conventional Camry will be close to 20/30 MPG (city/highway), while a hybrid one usually gets 30-35 mpg in a city. Sometimes more, it depends, especially on the usage of AC. So, the savings are noticeable, but less than twofold. Hence, the above cited 18 month or even 5-year recoup time is far too bold an estimate.
Interesting. That might be true for the East Coast, an area I'm not too familiar with in terms of driving, but in California, congestion reigns supreme, and I'm not just talking city urban traffic.
For example, it has become quite common to sit through bumper-to-bumber, sub 50 mpg the entire way from LA to San Diego, with constant slow downs.
Or, taking the 5 up to the Bay area or the 15 to Las Vegas out of LA can be parking lots the entire way and we're talking hundreds of miles in both cases.
It takes me 4 hours to get to Vegas if I drive at night minus traffic. If I leave Vegas on Sunday it will take me 6 for sure. If there is an accident it might take 7, 8 or 9 hours. So, my perspective is quite different than yours.
However, in LA traffic, most Camry hybrid drivers I've talked are achieving almost 40 mpg. Whereas regular Camry drivers are achieving about 20 mpg. That's a huge difference.
In terms of the Prius, I regularly achieve 50 mpg in my commutes and I know many achieving the same kind of mileage in similar types of driving, again, extreme congestion.
IN places like LA, the future is even more congestion and according to most transportation studies, everywhere in America is going to become far more congested in the next few decades - maybe not California congested, but more congested. I think that demonstrates a bright future for hybrids, and I guess that's what I'm really focused on.
Gas this weekend in Ohio is $3.79 for basic unleaded! OWWWWW
Come on Toyota, give me a plug in hybrid that I can buy new off the lot. Even if it only has 10 - 12 miles in EV mode, it would be a boon for me!
I have a Yukon that I use pull a camper and guess what? It basically sits in my driveway, unused. I am afraid to put gas in it anymore! :)
*BTW, LB is also me*
It looks like the West Coast is awfully congested. From my experience on the East Coast you have *some congestion in cities* but on highways say from New York to DC or from DC to Michigan it is *almost always* 60 mph.
PS: Hybrid Camry gets 40 only you don't use AC much and drive a great deal. I don't know why but it is not efficient with short runs. So, if you drive 10 miles to work and occasionally drives long distances (with 40-42 mpg efficiency) on the highway you get around 35-36 mpg in the average... noticeably less than an EPA estimate and close to the average 25 mpg you'll get with a conventional Camry.
I wanted to say that LB is also me, damned stupid blogger that cannot say comment notification where you want but only to a gmail account!
jabroni-
I paid a little over $4.00 the other day. Fortunately, I can take light rail most places I go, so I barely drive at all anymore.
Also, last I heard, when Toyota first starts selling plug-in hybrids, they might only be for fleet sales at first - that really sucks!
Hey, maybe trade that Yukon in for Saturn Vue dual mode hybrid when it comes out later this year. You can still pull your camper with great highway fuel economy thanks to the dual mode hybrid powertrain. I've talked to a few people at GM currently driving the Vue dual mode hybrid and I'm confident, it will be a great hybrid vehicle - plus, like the Escape hybrid, it should be convertible to plug-in capability - something GM is supposed to do by 2010.
itman-
no worries. sorry about the blogger issues - i don't know why I haven't converted to a different platform.
anyway, thanks for the east coast / west coast perspective. its easy to think that everywhere is just like california when it obviously is not - which is probably a good thing! and your camry hybrid experiences are greatly appreciated as well!
Dahcredyns,
you are welcome. And I do think that this is an awesome car for its money. And not only because it saves some gas...
ITMAN:
If you want to talk about the economic aspects of driving a hybrid versus a regular car, to me at least, it transcends simply about the payment and fuel mileage recovery.
There are health issues associated with it (long term...reduced pollution, reduced health costs, etc), insurance costs...it's probably cheaper to insure a hybrid, carpool lane usage, savings in parking, etc etc.
Again, to me it's not just about payments and how much I fill up per week. And besides...if two cars end up costing the same 5 years from now strictly based on fuel consumption and initial price, wouldn't it be better to drive the hybrid based purely on everything else?
About the hydrogen thing - It takes electricity to make hydrogen (using an electrolyzer), then a fuel cell converts that hydrogen back into electricity - both processes loose energy so a battery is much much more efficient - you just use the electricity you had to begin with.
Given that, saying you don't want electric and you'll wait for hydrogen really doesn't make much sense. What you'll probably see a ways into the future is electric cars with fuel cells as backup. Same idea as a PHEV but with hydrogen instead of gas.
Nozferatu,
what if two cars won't end costing the same price after 18 months or even after 5 years? :-)
Well...you have to weigh what's important for you. For most people, health issues are way down on the priority list...which to me is completely reverse logic.
Plus, the differences in costs overall between hybrid and non-hybrid cars is low in the long run. But the benefits are greatly different.
Help. can't decide between a Prius and a Hybrid Camry. I want the Prius for the better MPG but hubby thinks the Camry would be a better choice from a safety issue..We are in Texas and there are alot of SUVs and trucks to contend with on the road.
tammy-
the prius has proven to be quite safe and is pretty much a 5 star safety vehicle in most crash tests, so i wouldn't let that be the deciding factor, although if i were in a crash, i'd probably rather be in the camry hybrid rather than the prius.
if your commutes are short, i'd go with the prius, personally. however, if you have long commutes, then the camry hybrid might be more comfortable.
additionally, i have a number of lower back problems, and the front seats in the camry hybrid provide a lot more range to support my bad back, if that helps at all.
ultimately, i don't think you'll go wrong with either vehicle.
how about markups in texas? in california, where i live, dealers are adding $3000.00 markups to the prius. some are also adding this markup to the camry hybrid, but the camry hybrid markup is far less common than the prius markup.
look for the best deal based on your driving conditions and comfort requirements.
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