Are hybrids pointless without lithium?
Where are all the hybrids?Recently, I asked Micky Bly, GM's global hybrid director, if GM had an unlimited supply of NiMH batteries for its hybrid vehicles. GM does not, nor does any other automaker.
Why? Are hybrids pointless without lithium? Read more....
Labels: Hybrid Vehicles
posted by Dahcredyns at
8:13 AM
13 Comments:
prius is using NickelMH,
efficiency in this concept
is up to 50 % more compared
to straight gasoline cars...
What on earth
is wrong about that?
Lithium is beginning to
sound like nuclear fusion.
Too much energy from
too tiny mass/volume.
Nothing at all wrong with that. In fact, everything is right about that. So, why are NiMH batteries being used as an excuse not to mass produce more hybrids?
The Prius, as you state, kicks ass. It's simply a fantastic automobile and there should be more vehicles - many more - like the Prius on the road.
Will there never be the necessary profit margins with NiMH?
Is lithium just a delay tactic?
Why have automakers made the hybrid revolution dependant upon lithium?
Well, because GM has to buy NiMH battery from Panasonic EV (Toyota Sub) for their 2-mode hybrids.
It is in their best interest to downplay NiMH and hype up the Lithium.
dennis-
that's true, but gm could develop its own NiHM supply chain. also, toyota is and has been developing lithium for some time, as well as claiming that its hybrid future will be based on lithium.
is nihm simply not cost-effective. or, is the potential of lithium so great that focusing too much on NihM is a waste of time and resources?
many automakers have claimed that if they were forced to build nothing but hybrids - with today's technology - they would all go out of business.
is this correct or just a form of perception shaping?
The answer to your question is a resounding NO! GM could use the ALREAD TRIED AND TESTED NiMH Panasonic EV-95 batteries that are currently powering Toyota RAV4 EV's and ONLY need 300 pounds or so to deliver 40 miles range. PLEASE let us not forget that NiMH batteries have the EV1 a 140 to 160 mile range. These batteries are PROVEN AND RELIABLE.
THERE IS NO NEED for further battery testing. Simply install NiMH batteries into the Volt and SELL THE VEHICLE. But no. Alas and alack, we as customers have to wait for Li ion batteries to be tested for years on end in the interim. Brutal.
Maybe I will buy a Honda CNG vehicle instead of waiting for BEV's...........
jabroni-
NiMH's can power your electric vehicles for people that don't mind a little limited range and they can power the prius for people that want a little more range.
so why aren't automakers pushing this technology? are the profit-margins to thin? is the competition for Nickel too great?
or, even scarier, are automakers in a sense colluding with each other knowing that dealing with reality, today, simply isn't profitable, so they are conspiring against us in some ways?
i could, for example, get by marvelously with an electric RAV 4 and a conventional Prius - most Americans could. maybe its a rav 4 and tahoe hybrid for bigger families, but still - we could CHANGE THE WORLD.
Why isn't it happening?
What's the crux of the matter?
Is it that cheap gas is just too sweet of a drug for Americans to question the fact that the cheap gas isn't so cheap and our taxes and, more importantly, our deficit is skyrocketing out of control to pay for the military protection and transportation of that 'cheap' oil?
Ending foreign oil dependency, as a step towards ending oil dependency is, in my opinion, the most important issue facing America. I absolutely believe that if the status quo goes on, issues such as global warming won't mean anything. It won't mean anything because we'll already have destroyed ourselves.
Dammit, I just wanna punch America.
Well, the company that owns the large format NiMH patent is not interested in licensing and sitting on it. They are more interested in their main business -- sell oil.
NiMH has been proven to be profitable for mid-size hybrid cars to mid-size hybrid SUVs for Toyota. GM need the HV battery for larger SUV and Trucks as their 2-Mode is only suitable for big vehicles.
I wonder why GM doesn't use NiMh from Cobasys but use PEVE. I think PEVE's cells are superior in power density and life cycle.
dennis-
obviously the fact that chevron owns some of the critical NiMH battery patents is important. still toyota seems to have negotiated a contract - after the court order - that enables them to move forward with NiMH pretty aggressively.
more interesting than chevron's ownership, is the fact that GM had a majority stake at one time in these patents.
it seems, however, that peve perfected the nimh battey, which might explain why gm sold it.
still, toyota is pretty aggressively moving forward with hybrids and lithium won't be a mass-produced reality until 2011 at the earliest and probably more like 2012 or later - around the same time that Toyota would have free reign to sell all the NiMH batteries it wants in the US.
thus, it seems toyota has nothing to lose by going hell bent for leather towards total hybrid dominance as soon as possible, yet their approach seems tempered.
are they going as fast as possible or is there just no real economic incentive to be too aggressive these days?
ultimately, while I acknowledge the chevron conspriacy, I still think its military-enforced cheap gas that is the real problem.
Let us get real on Prius;
regen breaking is at 30%
efficiency.(That sounds poor!)
Combined engine and motor
saves upto 50% while driving,
while charging/discharging the
big battery is 80%.
Best performance is done
AVOIDING charging/recharging
in the famous Push-Pull mode.
To put it to extreme
Do batteries really matter?
What is Lithium's
main advantage and what for?
lithium's advantage can summarized by the electronic's industry as i posted today.
the other day i bought a 15 hour lithium battery for my camcorder that is smaller than the 1.5 hour NiMH battery of my first camcorder.
I have a 6 hour lithium on my computer compared to the hour I got on my first notebook.
the upside ot lithium is huge compared to NiHM - signicantly smaller, lighter yet more powerful cells means that hybrids can go from niche product to THE product.
The toyota camry hybrid - the best camry available - proves every day that most americans simply aren't willing to pay much more for hybrids, despite the camry's long term advantages.
that's what lithium can change.
its not that current hybrids aren't great, they just require a change in thinking - they pay for themselves in the long run - that most Americans simply don't buy.
100 mpg lithium hybrids are obvious to even the most stubborn.
100 mpg lithium
obvious for most stubborn?
to put it very,very mildly;
I think heat will stay a
major problem if any kind of batterie
is handling those currents
in Electric mode in a AUTOMOBILE.
You are talking about Volt,
I am talking Ampere...
no doubt that thermodynamics are a big issue - the issue, when it comes to lithium. still, i think that lithium will happen.
nonetheless, there is no doubt that nimh vehicles should be made more commonplace - far more commonplace - until lithium can be developed.
unfortunately, most large automakers just aren't that nimble. and the potential of lithium is so great that automakers just can't help buy chase that carrot, even it means reducing their nimh efforts.
Just some useful info for you guys: Technical specifications of Toyota Prius.
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