Toyota hybrids: Nothing to gain, everything to lose?
Is every other automaker far behind Toyota?I've been a bit disappointed with Toyota at the last couple of major auto shows; the LA Auto Show and NAIAS. Mostly, I'm just dying to see Toyota take their hybrid vehicles to the next level. Thus, even though the A-BAT hybrid truck was one of my favorite hybrid concepts at NAIAS, I still wanted more from Toyota. I wanted to see, touch and feel Toyota's hybrid future - the next Prius.
Yet, what does Toyota have to gain by showing off much from its third generation Hybrid Synergy Drive, such as the next-gen Prius, or even a lithium-powered plug-in Prius? Prius sales, for example, are kicking ass. Showing off a better Prius would probably only slow Toyota's hybrid sales, not help them.
Is Toyota smart to stay quiet about its next generation Prius?
Labels: a-bat hybrid truck, Hybrid Vehicles, toyota prius
posted by Dahcredyns at
2:36 PM
20 Comments:
With the Prius selling well now, why deflate its value by making people wait for the next generation. They only risk drawing the ire of the consumer if it doesn't happen (hence my doubts and disdain for GM's parading of the Volt).
For Toyota its been under-promise, over-deliver. Great way to develop customer loyalty.
Obviously, I absolutely agree with you regarding Toyota.
Interestingly, I covered the over-promise, under-deliver topic with a few GM execs while at NAIAS and I'll be posting a number of stories on this angle over the next few days.
That's precisely a good reason for not buying a Toyota. I don't like firms who play games.
I'll end up buying something else if Toyota chooses to do that. I'm not going to wait around while they have boardroom meetings on how they can screw the consumer until the last moment.
Noz-
I disagree. The Third Generation Prius isn't yet ready for market, otherwise, I would completely concur with your opinion.
The point I was trying to make, is that if Toyota started hyping their next generation Prius, then consumers would probably consider waiting for the next gen. Prius, rather than buying today's Prius.
Since the next gen Prius isn't yet ready for market it seems wise for Toyota not to say much about it versus GM and the Chevy Volt, for instance.
Technology changes so fast that electronics companies have to be careful about deflation.
From the consumer side, it seems like a win to wait and get the newest stuff, but if the producers get caught with inventory of the old stuff, it can mean financial ruin. I don't think Toyota has their finger on the scale as much as they're not going to play the GM (or Hillary) side and just tell the market what it wants to hear. (sorry, had to slide the political comment in ;)
Dahcredyns, how do you know that the third generation Prius isn't ready? Toyota isn't talking. While it is certainly a horrible idea to over-promise and under-deliver, those casting about for something better won't be able to take any prius inprovements into consideration either. Toyota 'appears' to be squeezing US consumers. WE DON'T LIKE THAT.
All over the world there are something like 113 vehicles that get 40+ miles per gallon. What are our choices? The prius and the Civic. Claims of dirty emmissions for high mileage diesels are not always true. example- the Lupo actually has cleaner emissions than a Prius. Would that vehicle sell here? Maybe not. But wouldn't it be nice for US consumers to have that choice? Where ARE our choices? Ask that question. A lot. And loudly!
dakotatycoon:
I agree with what you said except for the part that Toyota is squeezing us. It's not. It's not Toyota's fault that the options we have in the US are 10 years behind the rest of the world. It's been like that since the beginning. Americans are behind in MANY MANY things. But due to overall ignorance and arrogance, we're always ahead right?
When I first came to the US from the UK, it was amazing how many things we didn't have in the US...we couldn't get, there were no options. Freedom without options isn't freedom...but the word freedom is a great selling point for the masses.
As far as Diesel emissions go, there are many aspects of emissions..diesel is not cleaner in all of them. And let's not forget it takes quite a bit more crude oil to make 1 gallon of diesel versus standard fuel.
These are things that diesel pushers do not take into accout.
dakotatycoon-
You are right. I don't know that the third generation Prius isn't ready, but I think there are a lot of factors at play, such as new production lines, smaller NiMH batteries and tons of new software.
Testing and integrating all of these variables into a new production line takes time, especially in the case of hybrid vehicles. Moreover. it takes time to set in place the necessary materials, especially the batteries. Every automaker has a limited supply of NiMH batteries.
Also, Toyota was hoping to start adding lithium to the third generation Prius, but those damn cell phones keep blowing up.
So, I'm sure that Toyota has had to do some backtracking and rethinking.
Still, we probably are being squeezed a bit, that seems to be the nature of the auto industry. They just aren't that nimble yet.
In regards to the 113 40+ mpg cars you reference, US automakers have a hard time making money off these vehicles in the US. Most are sold at a loss.
Still, you are right. There are some incredibly cool cars made by GM or Chrysler and sold in foreign markets that look like they would fit well in America. In the past most Americans haven't seemed that interested in such vehicles, unless they were dirt cheap.
Americans will overpay for an SUV, but they have a hard time finding value in a small car. Maybe that's changing a bit because of higher gas prices.
And diesels did have issues in the past as well. Today, most of those issues have been overcome, but clean diesel technology does add significant costs to new vehicles.
Ultimately, if petro cost the same amount in America, as in Europe, then things would probably be more like Europe in the US, in terms of the auto sector.
Until then, here's plenty of blame to go around, but when push-comes-to-shove the problem is cheap gas, and Americans can't handle the truth.
noz-
be fair.
we have things in the us others don't have, such as large suvs, giant suvs, and supersized suvs!
is there more to life than that?
In answer to the question posed in the subtitle "Is every other automaker behind Toyota?"
My answer: Duh. This is most definitely GM's last year as the biggest car manufacturer in the world, Toyota only trailed in 2007 by 3,000 cars and with all the advances Toyota is making and the lolly gagging GM is doing, Toyota is surely to take the crown in 2008. I mean, have you seen the 2008 Camry Hybrid? I'd give my left nut for one of those and for $25k, that's a steal considering Toyota's known longevity. The aging Prius can do 100k miles before needing to open the hood practically.
To put that $25k in perspective, that's less than what Ford wants for the 2008 Taurus Limited. Wow, something is wrong with this picture.
More people should learn about electric vehicles as a solution. "Zero emissions" is something that's going to be required by law one day (you know it will). Making the decision to go electric is far cheaper anyway, like 10 cents on the dollar vs. gas. (source: zapworld.com)
Are discusted potential Prius buyers really organizing to start a Federal class action against Toyota for allowing their dealers to raise the sticker price to well over $5,000. Real estate dealers did the same and look what happened to that market and all of us.
In the past Toyota has tried to distance itself from dealers when it comes to price. In the past Toyota has also asked dealers not to impose mark-ups, so I wonder if Toyota can be sued, or if this is a matter that must be resolved via each dealer.
I think the markups demonstrate bad customer service from the dealerships, but I don't know if Toyota should be legally forced to get involved.
Toyota is in the drivers seat, all puns intended. They chose the right course while everybody else laughed at them and built trucks. Now they get the last laugh while everyone else incurs BILLIONS in losses trying to catch up. And they weren't exactly in dire straights before the Gas crunch.
They get to do what they want, when they want, how they want and we get to be put on a wait-list to buy WHATEVER they feel like selling.
And thats the way it's going to roll.
that is the way its going to roll.
still, toyota has been aggressive with hybrid compared to every other automaker, as you point out, and i think that aggressiveness will increase significantly once the the next gen is launched.
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I can hardly wait for Prius to bring out a wagon and dissapointed that Honda will not. For years (before oil prices went up and the dollar fell off) I had nothing but Volvos which I yhinl are fine cars, but I need a wagon and cannot afford a new Volvo, a Euro based vehicle with no manufacturing capacity in the Americas and thus bound to raise prices severely ANDN volvo will not prodcuce hybrids on environmental grounds. I just wish the Americans or Europeans would come up with a good sizeable station wagon for old farts like me. mimibob
i'm 38. I'm not sure if that makes me an old fart or not - i guess it depends on the circle having the discussion. anyway, i love wagons and i'd love a hybrid wagon.
I too luv wagons. MY 2nd car was a Subaru 4WD loyale, luv that car, took it everywhere. Now why does Subaru make hybrids ? And BMW a hybrid mini maybe ? The market is out there waiting. WAKE UP mates !
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